Lads need dads - the Lost Boys report

[osotroo]

I read this BBC article and it struck a chord. I couldn't see a thread on it here, so thought I'd start one:

BBC News - Lost boys report: Young men are in crisis due to fatherlessness - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd3jlee33yo

I have two boys, who are lucky to have a wonderful dad. I know many mumsnetters have sons who are not so fortunate, whether through bereavement, abandonment, relationship break-down, violence, or personal choice. In many cases, no father figure will be better than the default option. But what can society do to compensate? The obvious answer is more male teachers, more male sports coaches, and other activity leaders that can provide positive role models. What really saddens me is the "all men are bastards" attitude that is so common on these threads, because believing that can only make lives worse, not better.

Quote: "Boys are now more likely to own a smartphone than to live with their dad"😕

Well it doesn't help that mumsnet encourages LTB for minor infringements.

Well, this is an issue for men to sort out.

Typical mn answer.

No wonder nothing gets sorted.

Pure bullshit. Not being in a relationship with your children’s mother does not mean not having a relationship with your children. If some men think and act like that, that’s on them, not on MN or the woman.

I work in a secondary and see every day the huge demand for male role models. A large number of our students are on free school meals and growing up without a father. They latch on to the senior males at school and have a really hard time leaving in Y11.

I agree OP.

Daughters need their dads too, but I think having a present and positive father in a boys life as he grows up is so, so important.

Sadly, many men don’t seem to realise this though and it’s the children that pay the price.

It’s the modern way and a massive contributor to the problem unfortunately.

Well, you sang force meant to a) behave themselves enough for a court to not rule they would be absent b) force a man to actually be involved with his children.

this most certainly is an issue for men to own

I sit on PX panels for a Trust so across quite a few schools.
Since doing them I think I have had 2 children out of around 20 who had a father in their lives.
The stats for people (men and women) in prison without a father in their lives are quite telling too.
I appreciate its not always possible and no father is probably better than a shitty one but there is no escaping the fact that kids have better outcomes when they have 2 parents in their lives.

You’re right, OP. Our young adult son (and daughter) are lovely human beings. Much of that is down to Dad. He’s always had physical limitations then latterly disability so couldn’t really do the typical, physical man stuff with them. What he did do was talk with and listen to them for hours all through their lives, give guidance, help with problems/homework, etc. I’m incredibly grateful for his positive influence on them and sad for children who don’t have the same.

100% 👆 this.

I think there are a lot of external influences, not just boys without Dads in general. My DC don't have a Dad involved at all, however they have 2 strong females (myself and my Mum) heavily involved in their lives which I think massively helps. I ensure the boys are around good male influence such as friends, ensuring they're in clubs such as football etc. I am conscious and proactive with it.

Lone mothers need to acknowledge the downfalls of having no male figure and counteract it where they can, not just deny it like a lot do. The father has gone, for whatever reason. That's on them, but there are other ways you can support your children.

No. Men have to step up. Even if you're not together with their mother.

Well who is in charge of the country? Who is in charge of top 100 companies? Who is in charge of all the big charities?

Set up charities, open youth spaces, sponsor apprenticeships, set up mentoring programs etc. and have men volunteer their time and services (or encourage them to take up a paid role in them). As women we can’t fill that void. As women, even we had the power and resources to set those things up, they would still be predominately manned by women , which is pointless.

As a society, we can barely make men to take responsibility for their own kids, much less someone else’s. So yes, it needs to come from men, a collective acknowledgment , awakening and action.

Women also have to let them.

Because men won’t do the work?

I agree.

It's so complicated.

The one-size-fits-all education model doesn't work. Boys and girls are different, but this seems to be an unacceptable thing to say.

There is no penalty for fathers who walk away and refuse to support their children. This should be made a criminal issue.

Porn is another serious issue. Internet porn, violent content, violent games and digital addiction. So many youngsters have no idea how to communicate in the real world and boys have their brains addled with seriously awful content.

Lack of male teachers. (There was a thing about this on Womans Hour some time ago and it's a big problem.)

Men being totally uninterested in child-rearing and putting the effort in. (Yes I know NAMALT but we all know the figures.)

It's a bad, sad state of affairs.

You can hardly say “well men need to sort this out” when these are our children, our sons who we are raising and living with and love fiercely. Our problem, literally, because their dads have fucked off (speaking metaphorically here, my sons have a wonderful dad).

One thing women can do, and have always done but have sort of stopped recently, is be much more choosy about their mate. Choose high quality men to have children with, and don’t have children until you’re married, and don’t have children with more than one man if the first relationship doesn’t work out. There are many many women having kids with men they KNOW are shit dads to existing kids, to men that are violent and work shy and have addiction and debilitating MH problems. And having kids with multiple of those men. Gate keeping having children is something that actually is within women’s power the vast majority of the time and would have a huge impact on men’s behaviour.

My husband has never known his dad. (Genuinely MIL doing, who we have little to do with now).

He is an excellent father and husband despite never growing up with any solid male role model. He couldn’t do enough for me and our baby and is determined to be the one he never had. So it’s not always doom and gloom. Just putting it out there!

It’s fairly telling that the organisation was set up by a woman

Its deluded to suggest that absent dads are only absent because of women leaving them for no reason.

This. Women have agency too and can make responsible choices but many don’t - because their desire to have a baby outweighs the life they can provide for their child.

The married vs co-habiting split is pretty much the same. It's incorrect to say that married parents stay together much more than co-habiting parents. The highest percentage is those parents who were never in a relationship :

• Impact on Children:
• 46% of 14-year-olds in the study were not living with both natural parents, with 19% born to single parents, 14% whose parents married and then divorced, and 13% whose parents never married but split up.

Statistic from the Marriage Foundation. What society needs to look at is why so many women have kids outside of a relationship.

Because a lot of men don’t want to get married.

It needs to be unpicked why so many men don’t want to make a commitment to a relationship or marriage.