Lads need dads - the Lost Boys report

[osotroo]

I read this BBC article and it struck a chord. I couldn't see a thread on it here, so thought I'd start one:

BBC News - Lost boys report: Young men are in crisis due to fatherlessness - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd3jlee33yo

I have two boys, who are lucky to have a wonderful dad. I know many mumsnetters have sons who are not so fortunate, whether through bereavement, abandonment, relationship break-down, violence, or personal choice. In many cases, no father figure will be better than the default option. But what can society do to compensate? The obvious answer is more male teachers, more male sports coaches, and other activity leaders that can provide positive role models. What really saddens me is the "all men are bastards" attitude that is so common on these threads, because believing that can only make lives worse, not better.

I don't think it's a good idea to have more children than you can support by yourself in the event of the (inevitable) breakup. Some women are having three or four children with these useless specimens. You generally get an idea of what they're going to be like after the first. Or be very pragmatic, and only have what you yourself can support.

It's not women's job to fix men and miraculously provide a father figure if the man is simply not up to it. You can't expect women to ruin their health by running around after, and tolerating, an adult who is merely a burden on the household.

You see quite a few posters on threads suggesting women go down the sperm donor route

And these children do not appear to have worse outcomes from it, ditto those born to same sex female parents.

@abitoffluff they are still missing male role models and can have issues not knowing their genetic make up.

Yes, but on the whole they are not not getting involved in gangs, knife crime, prison sentences, illiteracy and addiction.

No one is going to make it through childhood without issues of some sort, even in happy and stable homes. But it is misguided to claim the issue lies with lack of male role models; it’s deeper than that.

I'm with most of the other PPs.

This is for men to sort. We've done everything we can now, time for the men to step up.

also the increase in sperm donor conceptions so the kids don’t get the chance of a father in the first place 🙁

Yep so women to blame again.

In the absence of a crystal ball, how are they supposed to know? Most abusive men present as decent and charming first. Many only commit their first DV act in their OH’s pregnancy. Which BTW is when DV rates soar

God people will do ANYTHING before they blame men for being shitty men.

I do you think you may have a point here. I raised my eldest two boys by myself and they are the least "laddish" young men you could ever meet!

I bet if you asked the ages of the women (and not the men) who have responded to this thread, the ones saying it’s all society/single mother upbringing (ie other women should be choosing more sensibly) are in their 20/30s, the ones saying it is divorce (lack of a male figure) are in their late 40s, and the ones saying it’s genuinely a problem with men would be 50 onwards (they know by then that men are actually pretty poor as a species)

Love that, they’ll probably be great role models themselves one day because of it. :)

I'm replying without reading the whole thread, which I know is terrible (I will go back and read).

But, FWIW: studies have shown that children of lesbian mums (who, mostly, don't have dads on the scene, or have dads who are not default parents) do absolutely fine.

Children (boys and girls) need love. I believe they also need to know they were wanted and planned for, or, if not, that their arrival was a wonderful thing. Obviously, if a child knows their biological mum or dad didn't really want them, or couldn't really be bothered, that is hugely psychologically damaging.

To acknowledge this is not the same as to conclude that 'lads need dads'.

Also, FWIW, that article can get to fuck with its terminology of 'natural parents'. I am not my daughter's biological mother - that does not mean I am an 'unnatural parent'.

1. There simply aren't enough decent men to go around, so women feel pressured to "settle" sooner than stay single or forego children.
2. Abusers actively seek out women who they can easily abuse.

In that case, can I marry David Hasselhoff?

No, I don't have complete agency over who I marry, date, and have kids with. I cannot marry whoever I want, only whoever is willing to marry me.

Men have as much control as I do. Their practical options for exercising their right to veto conception are less varied, but they can still absolutely veto conception simply by not vaginally penetrating women.

My abuser and my sister's utter waste of oxygen of an ex-h both ticked zero of those boxes.

They absolutely do.

Can I ask what charity that is? Depending on the time commitment I might be interested. Thanks!

Obviously, if a child knows their biological mum or dad didn't really want them, or couldn't really be bothered, that is hugely psychologically damaging.

And I think you've identified why absent fathers are damaging to children but the children of lesbian couples and single-by-intent mothers who used sperm donors are fine.

HowardTJMoon we are in Ireland, can pm you if you are too.

Sadly not. But I'll do some digging and see if I can find something similar nearby. Thanks anyway!

That’s why I said 90% and not 100%.

I don’t really thing there have been enough lifelong studies of kids in these set ups to conclude anything for sure.

My personal belief is just because somebody has decided dads or half their biological family isn’t necessary, that doesn’t mean you can decide it for someone else.

Complete agency doesn’t mean marrying who you want in this context, it means not marrying who you don’t want. Which would’ve been the logical assumption of any critical thinker.

Would you suggest women stopped allowing themselves to be penetrated where consent was present?

Rubbish. Your approach makes women helpless bystanders, subject to whatever behaviour men want to inflict on them. Mine empowers women to use their own agency to make good decisions, free from the reliance on the good nature of men.