Lads need dads - the Lost Boys report

[osotroo]

I read this BBC article and it struck a chord. I couldn't see a thread on it here, so thought I'd start one:

BBC News - Lost boys report: Young men are in crisis due to fatherlessness - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd3jlee33yo

I have two boys, who are lucky to have a wonderful dad. I know many mumsnetters have sons who are not so fortunate, whether through bereavement, abandonment, relationship break-down, violence, or personal choice. In many cases, no father figure will be better than the default option. But what can society do to compensate? The obvious answer is more male teachers, more male sports coaches, and other activity leaders that can provide positive role models. What really saddens me is the "all men are bastards" attitude that is so common on these threads, because believing that can only make lives worse, not better.

My dh works for a charity that recruits volunteers to mentor boys who have been involved in crime or are at risk of becoming criminals. Most of the boys are being raised by single mums and have no decent father figures in their lives, unfortunately only a tiny number of men volunteer, its nearly all women, so I agree with a pp that to some extent at least it's a problem for men to help sort out.

Well it doesn't help that mumsnet encourages LTB for minor infringements.

Quite the opposite, the current generation of useless men have been raised by mothers who didn't LTB and put up with all kinds of shit and uncaring behaviour. And the current useless dads learned that this is how dads behave.

It’s a shame you seem to evade blaming men on this issue OP and are instead blaming women who point out that men are too often indeed bastards. We don’t need more male teachers. We need less shitty men. It’s really not that hard. Making it a societal problem enables the shitty men

Yes. I don't think men will step up and realise they are the problem. The birth rate will drop.

So in order to make sure men are involved with their sons, women have to stay in relationships with nasty, useless and abusive men.

Always a woman to blame ey

Yep. I was watching Married at First Sight recently and a few people say things like “People just don’t stay together any more! My mum and dad have been together 780 years!” And I think “Actually no it’s that women put up with less shit these days not that people aren’t as committed”

I actually find I prefer men who were raised by single mothers, two women, or a mum and sisters. Obviously, this is just my experience, but I’ve found that men without overly masculine role models tend to grow up more emotionally intelligent, mature, and anti-sexist. There are obviously exceptions.

I think it’s just “lad” culture- beers, football, golf, cars, or whatever- I can’t stand, and men who weren’t raised around that are less likely to be interested and therefore be more pleasant.

I think it’s the other way round.

I think boys who grow up with only a female to meet their every need continue to expect females to do so after they’ve grown up. They have no experience of men having to do any domestic duties, and just see women as service people who look after them.

They also end up the alpha of the household as they’re taller and bigger than mum by age 12. Think how many threads you’ve seen with single mothers desperately trying to control aggressive teen sons.

No they just have to choose a decent one. It’ isn’t a lucky dip.

Women have complete agency as to who they marry, date and procreate with. They have far more control than the men do over this.

Men need to step up and be responsible and women also need to make better choices about the men they decide to have children with.

Of course not all women, I totally agree there are many women who do the right thing and end up with dickheads but I also see many women who blindly go into relationships where there are red flags waving right in front of their eyes yet they ignore and plow ahead. I see many women including on mumsnet who decide to go ahead because they really want a baby even though the man is obviously useless.

There aren't that many around. It might not be a lucky dip but it's definitely a lottery.

And unfortunately the bad 'uns don't come with "twat" tattooed on their foreheads.

Parents splitting up doesn't automatically mean the dad should waltz away and not contribute to the parenting or the material contributions.

As we know though, far, far too many of them do. They are the problem. The men.

Actually most of the time they do.

Here’s some hallmarks to watch out for:

1. Tattooed knuckles or necks
2. Men who have multiple children with multiple mothers
3. Men who are unemployed
4. Men who call their exes crazy or women ‘bitches’
5. Men who pay no child support, regardless of the reason
6. Men who have been banned from driving
7. Men who live at home with their parents
8. Men who ‘have a bit of a reputation’
9. Men who tell you they love you and want to move in within 6 months
10. Men who post their support for Reform on Facebook

If women avoided the above, 90% of these cases could be prevented.

There are not going to be a lot more male teachers as pay is crap, long hours and thankless task.
Also this links to making us think all male teachers would be good role models, some maybe but not all by a long way. In my experience often have less patience and in high school teachers might see same pupil for two hours a week. Not going to make a massive difference.
But I don't have a better answer.

A lot of men seem to be quite poor quality these days. Expect the woman to work full time to contribute to bills/mortgage/rent, do all the housework, childcare, shopping, cooking, school admin. whilst he goes out drinking/hobbies/lads holidays/video games/drugs/gambling. Leaves her whilst she's pregnant, doesn't want to get married or even look after his own child/ren. Addicted to pornography or chasing the latest woman.

Men need to grow up and become adults instead of remaining perpetually misogynistic 15 year olds. What can they offer sons if they're like this anyway? Are women supposed to put up with dead wood whilst they struggle to work/run house/raise children anyway? These men merely become burdens or can be dangerous in the cases of domestic violence.

I see what you’re saying, but it’s also quite old fashioned. The mothers I’m talking about weren’t the apron wearing, cookies in the oven, dinner on the table type. These were mostly feminists who took absolutely no prisoners when it came to men and could handle themselves just fine- my lovely MiL, for example, had no issue with two sons twice her height because they just wouldn’t dare.

I’m a little woman (and a gentle parent), but if anyone thought they were my ‘alpha’, especially my own teenage child, they would regret it. My DH is a wonderful male role model- polite, kind, quiet, and gentle, if that were the majority of men, I’d probably have a different experience. But with how a lot of men act, I don’t think they’re a massive loss.

I am not the type to judge a person based on the way they present themselves, I have tattoos myself, but this is so spot on it should be a public service announcement.

Men have complete agency in how they act and who they associate themselves with though. Thats on them.

Do midwives ever ask dads what their contraception plans are after the birth ? Maybe vasectomies should be normalised at booking in and other antenatal appointments so that by the time of the birth, it’s sorted.
I know that vasectomies can be reversed but considering how many men clearly regret fatherhood, normalising vasectomies would be helpful for society in general.

The article points out that poverty, addiction and criminal behaviour are the main issues but unfortunately aren’t popular investments politically as they are seen as problems created by the “feckless poor”

I got my son into scouts as soon as he was old enough, it's been great for him and he is doing amazingly well, his father was in and out of his life until he killed himself when ds was 9, all grandparents dead before ds born. I agree boys need dad's ( or a male role model), in a previous job, I used to encourage parents to get their children into groups (any group - but I would give suggestions to what was local) and the excuses I got to why this wasn't possible were truly pathetic.

Completely agree, although guess some men hide how shit they’re going to be until they’ve actually got kids.

Men have to step up, but so do women. Choose the future dad of your children carefully. Yes some may change, but how many threads do we see on hear where women moan about how useless dad their partner is, when it turns out they were useless partners first.

Parents need to parent sons well, get rid of boys will be boys, expect respect from their sons, no misogyny in the homes

Huh what?

Men have no control over who they stick their dicks in?!

Fuck me, there's some warped thought out there. Oh hell just tripped and fell and it slipped in and he was trapped so had to run away and abdicate all responsibility. She made him do it. He was forced more than she was. He wasn't responsible for birth control at all.

Dear lord and we wonder why men don't take responsibility!? It's also as if we don't expect them to, but we expect women to take all the responsibility!

This- Boys are crying out for good, stable strong males in their lives.

Boys especially really need good male role models to grow into decent men.