Lads need dads - the Lost Boys report

[osotroo]

I read this BBC article and it struck a chord. I couldn't see a thread on it here, so thought I'd start one:

BBC News - Lost boys report: Young men are in crisis due to fatherlessness - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjd3jlee33yo

I have two boys, who are lucky to have a wonderful dad. I know many mumsnetters have sons who are not so fortunate, whether through bereavement, abandonment, relationship break-down, violence, or personal choice. In many cases, no father figure will be better than the default option. But what can society do to compensate? The obvious answer is more male teachers, more male sports coaches, and other activity leaders that can provide positive role models. What really saddens me is the "all men are bastards" attitude that is so common on these threads, because believing that can only make lives worse, not better.

I was married, had a planned family, nice house, no poverty but my ex DH just was not interested in being involved with them. He never came on family days out, took the DSs to the park, helped with homework or went to school events. My 2 DS had role models in a grandfather, uncle, friends' fathers and sports and scouts leaders.

Being married, no poverty etc. does not make a man a good father.

Never stopped him where is he? On marriage number three moaning to strangers that he doesn't see his children the fact that the last time he messaged me (about child support) I didn't even recognise his number because he changed it again should show people I'm not the fucking problem

X Is in hospital and wants his dad "I'm busy maybe later"
Y has covid and might need to be hospitalised can you take x? "No I'm not catching covid do you realise how selfish you are I WORK"
X needs a signature for his ehcp can you sign? "DONT YOU DARE GIVE THOSE PEOPLE MY DETAILS"

Asked and answered kids tell me not to now

Men don't have children because they want to make sacrifices for them, spend time nurturing them and teaching them to be decent well-rounded humans.

They have children because they want to prove to other men that they have the ability to dominate a woman and make her sacrifice her needs for him and his progeny.

Yes but in very general terms poverty can make them worse.

Mrsbloggz · Today 13:08

Men don't have children because they want to make sacrifices for them, spend time nurturing them and teaching them to be decent well-rounded humans.
They have children because they want to prove to other men that they have the ability to dominate a woman and make her sacrifice her needs for him and his progeny.

Good grief. You need to meet different men.

I agree with you enormously. But most men i know are not interested in other people's children. The men work, responsible jobs, hobbies, friends; some have children and are reasonable parents. But would not invest effort, time, resources into supporting other children. Some of the rare conversations on this have shocked me. Eg quite happy to let their children's friends at parties drink excessively, casual sex. They didn't see themselves needing to or accept that they had any personal responsibility to protect teens/young adults. Quite a bit of concern over (unreal) competition about how friends children or doing. So yes it is for men to drive this, but I don't think many will.

Also the mantra that if you're no longer in love with your partner, it's best to split up (even if you parent together fine) because "You deserve happiness too"...

...And then comes the inevitable shit show of blended families.

LTB does not stand for “deprive your child of a good father.” A good dad will always be there for his children regardless of circumstances.

They need good dads really. DS is not impressed with the sexist nonsense and attitudes he hears from some of his mates dads.

This.

It is for the men to change this. Not being in a relationship doesn't mean not being involved in their children's lives! And if they are in their lives, actually doing things for them and interacting with them.

I don’t know any men like that but I think that dads picture parenthood as very different to reality - playing with kids around their current schedule sort of thing and don’t make the big changes that mums make when they become parents like night owls having to get up early, forgoing promotions to fit the school run etc

"Minor" 😂😂😂😂😂

I post LTB all the time and it's never for anything "minor". Subsequent posts from the OP always show a pattern.

Twelfth Rule of Misogyny, innit.

I think the jury is out as to whether no male role model is better than a not quite good enough one. (notwithstanding men that are actively dangerous t the child), Im not sure the research supports that (many years since I read studies about this). Generally speaking boys do better when dads are in their lives.

And there is a fine balance between men apparently not wanting to be part of their child's life and women who feel that everything their partners d do as fathers is not good enough, not quite right, make too many mistakes, dont want to leave him with the baby/child overnight, dont want to relinquish decision making or even share decision making. So what do you do as that person, you find yourself edged out and distanced from your child. (and Im talking about couples who are together).

Look at the number of threads on here where a minor issue like dad allowed baby to eat this or do that etc, is suddently viewed as a massive issue and hes not a fit father etc etc and the tone of a lot of threads is 'my baby', not 'our baby' and that decisions by the mum have to hold sway rather than recognising both parties are equal and have an equal say.

LTB doesn’t mean leave the children. Sometimes the father-child relationship is fine and it’s just the relationship between the adults that’s the problem.

Men need to be honest and say they're not interested in becoming a parent/ would be a crap parent before conceiving.
Some women need to be better at recognising a complete waster before conceiving.

That's not true.

Women have historically rushed into marriage with unsuitable men for fear of being "left on the shelf" and they and their children have been battered and raped as a consequence, concealing this because divorce was illegal or else very hard (as in "needs an Act of Parliament" hard) to obtain.

Your entire post is the First Rule of Misogyny in action.

What a ridiculous post.

It's a societal problem, needing both men and women to help sort it out. Better adjusted young men will benefit women and girls. Did you read the bit about the young man Charlie? His mum, dad and nan all died on him, leaving him potentially adrift. Thank goodness for this organisation and the people that run it.

Oh my god- all of this

First post nails it.

The sooner we stop pretending men and women are ‘exactly the same, apart from socialisation’ the sooner we will be to fixing the problem. For both sexes.

That’s literally complete nonsense. There’s no evidence at all to support anything you’ve said there.

So women are supposed to put up and shut up and stay in abusive relationships?

Rules 1 - 4
1. Women are responsible for what men do.
2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.

Maybe men should stop being abusive. Problem solved.

The problem is with people never being in a relationship (ie one night stands)

No, the problem here is men not wanting to use condoms during their one-night stands. I've shagged about 40 men and only two were proactive about using condoms. Several of the rest expressed a preference for going without after I stated my instance that we used them. One overrode my wish to use a condom and raped me bareback.

Men don't care about STI risks and don't care about pregnancy risks. They are happy to assume without even checking that the woman is on contraceptives or will abort. This is a man problem: they aren't willing to use condoms to control their own fertility and protect their own health.

Rubbish. Nothing about that post is misogynistic. Rather total common sense. Men need to do better, but (shoot me down), so do women.

Boys are like puppies. They need fresh air, exercise, play, routine and to know they’re not the Alpha.

The boys around here largely live with single mums, cooped up on gaming consoles all day and wearing ‘Fortnite’ blanket hoodies. Many of them are overweight and pasty looking. It’s really sad.