Thread 19 Starmer - A Coalition of the Willing

[DuncinToffee]

.https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5276594-thread-18-starmer-all-sides-of-the-house-agree-apart-from-the-trump-bootlickers?page=40&reply=142583752

previous thread

Both of mine are enhanced for daily living and mobility, too. DS1 can use a microwave if you stand next to him and tell him what buttons to press. It's not much use for the dry food he tends to eat. I've tried to teach him how to use the air fryer and he struggles to get stuff out of it without burning himself. There are many other criteria that he gets lots of points in.

Unfortunately, when people report on disability they seem to think "wheelchair" or "just a bit anxious like we all are but milking it".

Quite.

so it’s not about making benefits function better.

Feel a bit sick reading that @itsgettingweird My child could possibly work a microwave timer but that’s a tiny piece of what would need to happen for them to be able to get food on to a table (or in to the house in the first place).

Just raise taxes and stop cutting welfare.

again ...

Meant to say I dislike the changes to the app so much it’s put me off using it. Really hate the extra stage to the flip and the initial post remaining at the top of the page. Unnecessary.

I think that diagram should be the first post on the next thread - if we repeatedly have to see the initial post make it that.

If I can get a link to that image, I will be happy to do that

Sorry - that wasn’t meant as an order! Just reflecting on what’s missing from current media interest regarding benefits.

I didn't read it as an order, I think it is a good idea!

What is “tax avoided” in that diagram and how much of the circles does it account for?

It’s all a bit meaningless without proper explanation.

Is the Times article talking about the current system or speculating on changes?

My DH also gets enhanced for both currently on a ten year award. Because Surprise! degenerative neurological conditions don't reverse themselves.

I am trying not to read too much about all this until the green paper is published and we know for certain what Labour is planning..

John McDonnell in The Guardian today

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/15/benefit-cuts-labour-mps-disabled-sick

It's an oldie but goldie from the Granuaid. As you would expect "AI" searching turned up fuck all, but here you go:

https://ibb.co/ZzdqTqyn

It's the best way of shutting down any and all debate on benefit cuts. Because I have never once had a poster actually ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION after they have banged on about wasting money on losers..

But we still don’t know what or what value ‘tax avoided’ is.

As far as I know, tax avoided is otherwise called tax efficiency or tax planning.

I actually don't think that matters very much. Unless you're putting tax into a pension to boost it, I don't think there should be any mechanisms to avoid paying taxes. And yes, the pension scheme should have tight limits. Most of us ordinary mortals on ordinary wages can't afford to avoid tax. If you're part of a society, you have a moral duty to contribute towards in proportion to your financial capacity to do so.

I see the argument. And it may be that ‘tax avoidance’ on those charts plays a minor part. Or it might not. Dunno.

But it must be wrong to object to people lawfully avoiding tax. Tax incentives are used all over the place by government to promote policies and change behaviour. If people take advantage of those incentives, that can’t be open to criticism. There is no ‘proper’ level of tax. There’s just a level set in law, and constantly varied, by government.

Shame you weren't so worried about unclaimed benefits. I guess shivering pensioners are only so newsworthy then ?

Why would I disagree with something that’s obviously not contentious in nature? Whether the figures are right I don’t know, but unclaimed benefits are unclaimed benefits.
🤷‍♀️

Rich people and rich companies should pay their tax.

John McDonnell references the group of "willing to pay more tax " Patriotic millionaires in that Guardian piece and ,
as I have stated before,
they can pay more now if they really want to.
There is nothing to prevent them.

So how much work would you do to ensure that all those benefits are claimed before you get your pitchfork out for the scroungers (i.;e the people not paying their taxes) ?

Myself ? I would have one of those inflexible fiscal "rules" (you know, the ones that mean you can't feed starving children) that says something like until you have reduced unclaimed benefits to (say) 5% of the benefits bill you can't reduce or remove any benefits.

Love John McDonnell.

He is spot on with this...

There is definitely a strong moral argument for providing professional and empathetic support to help people get into work if they are capable of doing so. There is no moral case for propelling even more people into poverty by cutting benefit levels, or denying access to financial support to those who have no alternative

I don’t have the OP at the top of the page on the phone app.

Oh, I’d put information online, employ advisors, run advertising campaigns and distribute leaflets.

If that doesn’t work I’d employ a small army of inspectors to go around snooping through windows and kicking in doors to interrogate people about their health, income and caring duties. 🙄

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/15/downing-street-considers-u-turn-on-cuts-to-benefits-for-disabled-people

Ministers have left the door open to a humiliating U-turn on their highly contentious plans to cut benefits for disabled people, amid mounting uproar over the proposals across the Labour party.

That wouldn't be humiliating though. That would be the sensible thing. Go back to the drawing board, work out the best strategy for getting the benefit bill down (hint: cuts ain't it!) and then try again.