Thread 19 Starmer - A Coalition of the Willing

[DuncinToffee]

.https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5276594-thread-18-starmer-all-sides-of-the-house-agree-apart-from-the-trump-bootlickers?page=40&reply=142583752

previous thread

No one gets disability benefits (including ESA) because they are "anxious".

There are of course people who manage to take the piss but they are in the minority, especially for disability benefits.

We need to ask why are people sicker, sick enough that they pass the stringent tests for ESA and PIP?

That’s why I think we should leave disability benefits alone. There are nearly three million people on long term sickness benefits, they need to be reviewed and those capable of working should be assisted to do so.

We need to ask why are people sicker, sick enough that they pass the stringent tests for ESA and PIP?

This.

Don't mean to come across as "Benefits bashing" at all, my Mum needed them, i've been unemployed and there are plenty of very genuine claimants.

But the numbers of relatively young people, condemned to a life of isolation, poverty and worklessness is unsustainable.

Vast majority of people want to work, in whatever capacity they can do so, which i why is hope, Labour will focus on support and less on saving money... thats the longer term goal.

The Tories attitude was save money, using ATOS etc and xxxx the genuine claimant... all very wrong.

There are nearly three million people on long term sickness benefits, they need to be reviewed and those capable of working should be assisted to do so

OK. "Long term sickness benefit" is ESA, either contribution based (non means tested) or means tested. To get it "long term" a person needs to be put into the "support group".

The details of how that works is in the link below. You will see that it is not easy to succeed. My DH gets contribution based ESA in the support group. Qualifying for it is a horrible and humiliating process.

https://www.advicenow.org.uk/get-help/benefits/employment-and-support-allowance-esa/employment-and-support-allowance-esa

The UK's ills won't be solved by punishing sick and disabled people. Just as we knew they wouldn't be by schemes like the Rwanda plan.

Mumsnet has become a cess pit of bashing on the sick and disabled and I have had enough for now. I try to avoid it, but it is seeping in everywhere on the site now.

I have to get off here for a while for the good of my own mental health. Hopefully @rummly is right and the green paper won't be as bad as feared.

Vast majority of people want to work, in whatever capacity they can do so, which i why is hope, Labour will focus on support and less on saving money... thats the longer term goal

I hope so, but I don't think this is what will happen, given the current rhetoric.

I’m so sorry to have upset you @PandoraSox, that’s the last thing I’d want to do. And I don’t want to drive you away. Your contribution to these threads is so valuable. I wish bloody PM wasn’t unavailable.

Just to clarify I’m talking about people on statutory sick pay, not ESA or PIP.

An attempt to cheer everyone up a little

Bad morning for Elon Musk, with both X and TSLA down.

BIossom, SSP is £116.75 paid for 28 weeks. It is not a long term benefit. The only long term sickness benefits are ESA (support group) and PIP.

You haven't driven me away, Blossom! But the hate from some people on MN (not you!) and the complete indifference of MNHQ to that hate is just too much for me right now.

Take care of yourself @PandoraSox. Don’t stay away too long, we’ll miss you. 🫂

and look after yourself @PandoraSox, we will miss you.

My DH gets contribution based ESA in the support group. Qualifying for it is a horrible and humiliating process.

And is impossible without professional grade assistance.

I'd like to see more help for SMEs to make adjustments that disabled employees. Having sorted some I know how much special furniture or putting in adapted toilets cost I can understand the disinentive to take people on.

If Labour turn on people who are ill, whilst at the same time allowing HMRC to have sweet heart deals with the extremely wealthy.... then that'll be it for me with Labour.

Oh but hasn't poor Alexander Armstrong had to move his kids? Or was he just moaning about the tax? I didn't read the whole article.

He swapped his artisan advocado toast for a jam buttie and his wife took in ironing, their kids are okay for now

Anything marketed as an aid or adaptation attracts a massive mark up. If you want proof just start looking at specialist sites and see how many fail to put a price up. Imagine if supermarket websites didn't display a price but just had "Call us now for a free quote" alongside their listing for beans.

I've also seen employer disability top trumps. Because it costs fuck all to dish out a lanyard and claim you are "disability friendly" than it does to fit ramps, accessible toilets and kitchen facilities along with adapted desks and office layouts.

A good litmus test of how sincere a company is about disability is to read whatever comes up when you click "Accessibility" on their website. If it is a lot of self serving spiel about how accessible the website is then you can discount anything they have to say about disability. If, however, it actually provides useful information about physically attending the business premises, then I'd suggest a lottery ticket would be a good investment.

I've spent 30+ years in the mix for disability rights. And - like womens rights - we've gone backwards. I'd say we are about 1982 at the moment. Probably get to 1975 by 2030.

And me. I suspect the queue for the door will go on for ever.

@SerendipityJane exactly. I don't think many people realise how much some specialised stuff costs. I worked for a very large company so we could absorb it but I've ordered a few desks that can have the height varied electronically for people with back conditions that mean they need to vary between sitting and standing and you are talking minimum £2.5k, often a lot more to get it to match other furniture in the branch or a non standard size/layout. And the lead times for delivery are often really long. We spent £7k construction costs putting in a downstairs loo and because it was a listed building there were planning permission costs and that took 6 months to get once ghd solution had been designed. Joe Bloggs Ltd with 10 employees would find that a tough ask without help to identify what's needed as with funding, especially when you find the lead times are so long the employee doesn't understand and thinks you are dragging it out, gets understandably pissed off and leaves as soon as you spend the money as happened with the toilet.

Same here, we’ve had fourteen years of demonising people hollowing out of resources & services until they barely exist, for what so that the top of the pile become even more wealthy the pursuit of profits above a functioning water provider/utilities/care/transport, the highest amount ever of children in poverty housing that’s unfit for purpose tackle these issues with a concerted effort for people to access real & meaningful help with mental health issues supporting rather than bashing with & even bigger stick, it hasn’t worked previously so why would it now, didn’t we have years ago something like “Remploy” which I believe was a vehicle for getting back into employment (I may be wrong & it’s wasn’t just vaguely remember something along those lines)
@PandoraSox really hope you are ok I fully sympathise don’t stay away too long 💐

Much easier to simply avoid hiring people with expensive disabilities.

How would you enforce your rights under the Equality Act ? No, I don't either. However it will start with <x> person-hours of effort plus £<y> of your own cash to start with. And that's before the Tory "quantity theory of human rights" is applied to the situation.

It is devastating how much has been removed from the poorest and most vulnerable in society, avoid the rich paying their fair share. Most of us would like to see a return to properly funded public services and help for the disabled and long term sick. I think as women we see how all this has played out by virtue of us being disproportionately employed in caring professions and also often being carers.

It is devastating how much has been removed from the poorest and most vulnerable in society,

Well, to be fair, they did cause the 2008 global financial crisis. And I don't want to be all JD Vance about this, but have they actually ever apologised ? I'll think you will find that they haven't.

Thank goodness!

Former Labour MP Mike Amesbury quits parliament after being given prison sentence for repeatedly punching constituent - triggering the first by-election of Keir Starmer's government.