Thread 19 Starmer - A Coalition of the Willing

[DuncinToffee]

.https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5276594-thread-18-starmer-all-sides-of-the-house-agree-apart-from-the-trump-bootlickers?page=40&reply=142583752

previous thread

Thanks. Would no doubt be quite a spectacle were it to get to court. Doubt it will though.

Too many skeletons will come out of the closet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7430zw4zqyo

Rupert Lowes lawyer contradicting what he has said about his legal advice

Well Reform did say that they were Reservoir dogs didn't they? Now they are in the final scene. Mexican stand off. Cant wat for it to end.

In other news. Quelle surprise

www.theguardian.com/education/2025/mar/10/no-exodus-to-state-sector-after-vat-added-to-private-school-fees-say-english-councils

Can't wait for the DM and DT headlines about the PS armageddon escape

I think Lowe might be too racist for Reform with his mass deportations and remigration ideas and love for tommy ten names

Some people are going to be really pissed off at that. 😂

Couldn't care less about Reform... we face far far bigger challenges, they are a side show atm

What poisoned chalice Starmer has been handed, quite incredible how much the world has and will change over the next few years, probably more so than Covid caused.

PS fees? as i ve argued on the many threads on this, just the rich trying to avoid tax, just as the Farmers are doing now over IHT.

Even as a Tory voter I’m sympathetic to the government’s position on what they inherited with the welfare bill.

If the Mail is to be believed about discontent among Labour MPs over welfare cuts, I can only say I think those MPs are very foolish. Welfare reform and cuts are long overdue.

That said, like the ITN report the other day, the Mail’s report is almost certainly circulating government spin to create a softer than expected landing for much less effective welfare reduction.

The goalposts are being moved whilst we are talking

I think the fact Musk was talking to him instead of Farage is what marked him out.

Worth remembering that Reform quite happily have a person convicted of a brutal assault on a woman as an MP. So their pantomime of "doing the right thing" really should be highlighted as a crock of the highest water.

This is another squirming point for Farage. It's all very well calling the cops, but if comrade Lowe ends up with a conviction it could trigger a by-election that might explode the "Reform will be the next government" fairy story that fascists like to tell their children at night.

It's also quite helpful that having this noise in the media is a welcome distraction from Farage being grilled on how deep his support for Putin goes.

That said, like the ITN report the other day, the Mail’s report is almost certainly circulating government spin to create a softer than expected landing for much less effective welfare reduction

Lots of Mumsnetters will be very disappointed. There have been some really vile threads recently. Some posters really despise disabled people.

I pointed this out on a long running thread the other day. I really wish I’d been keeping a list of all the key indicators the VAT policy would affect to tick off and monitor the goal posts.

@Rummly welfare cuts are not long over due. The Tories cut them back and back over the last 14 years. If repeatedly doing that hasn’t solved the problems and things have got worse, what makes anyone thing that doing the same thing again will definitely be the solution? Doing the same thing you’ve done before to solve the problem and expecting a different outcome is madness. See also ‘stopping the boats’ by tightening immigration policies.

Welfare reform and cuts are long overdue.

Back in 2002, an acquaintance commented that we'd know life was fair when kids had books and pencils and paper when needed and the army had to do a sponsored walk if they wanted a tank (or, to quote "fucking tank").

Admittedly it's a tad overblown. But I can't fault the sentiment.

"You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns"

@Rummly insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Your knee jerk demand for cuts comes under this definition.

The Tories spent 14 years slashing benefits and vilifying claimants. It achieved fuck all. Time for a different approach.

In fairness to the Tories they did a pretty good job of slashing the military funding too.

The Tories spent 14 years slashing benefits and vilifying claimants. It achieved fuck all.

Not true. It cost far more than it ever saved. And that is before you account for the invisible costs it created elsewhere.

Some people would happily spend £1 billion pounds on removing £1 million from "people we don't like".

The prime example of that is the bedroom tax. Which I notice has been quietly accepted into history. I have to admit to a disappointment that it and the child benefit cap were not scrapped on day one.

True that.

As the US are finding out, there are no limits on the greed of the wealthy. Left unchecked (why we have elections) the UK would have ended up with 100% tax rates and zero public services whilst the non-tax paying elite all complained about poor productivity.

One of the best slogans I've heard of late is that you pay taxes so Elon Musk doesn't have to. (Other obscenely wealthy individuals are available. Terms and conditions apply).

One of the big problems with the bedroom tax is the lack of LA housing stock. I don’t have an issue with the theory as long as there is plentiful local stock for people to downsize into.

The cutting of the LHA rate was unforgivable though. Most private rentals under the LHA rate are not fit for living in.

you’d think that 14 years that has seen the largest drop in living standards since WW2 and a large increase in the gap between rich and poor would have taught the U.K. that but no.

It would be good if we could hear some more thoughts from the Patriotic millionaires group, as mentioned by Adrian Ramsay on QT last week.
The massive, ever widening gap between the haves and the have nots has a huge bearing on my political beliefs.
I still cannot get my head around the stat that Musk, Zuckerbeg and Bezos's wealth combined is the same as the the total of the bottom 50% of the entire USA peoples .( Not fact checked myself but have read this so hoping I haven't posted bunkum!)
I don't buy from Amazon on principle and have cut off my nose to spite my face by stopping my Audible subscription for now.

It is heartening to hear that some millionaires agree that they should pay more .

I'm not looking for cuts per se but more intelligent spending, so job creation schemes for the long term unemployed and /or incentives for employers to give people a chance with meaningful employment.

We need to stop allowing people to chose to stay at home because they have lost the work ethic... it can be regained!

I'm personal friends with someone who "takes home" £1.9k in benefits, 2 school aged children, one with a SENs assessment, rent is £750.

She has very little work experience, what possible reason has she to take a job on or around NMW ? she'd be taking a substantial cut in income, even if she could get free childcare.

Mention "Anxiety" to a Work Coach and you'll be allowed to stay on benefits... so long as you an attempt to find work.

Its not about stigmatising the unemployed or those on sickness benefits, the country cannot afford to be spending 10s of billions on working age & relatively young people to be sat at home.

Thats not why Labour set up the Welfare State... its also very very odd that its the Tories who have given up this current mess.

I don't think people stay at home 'because they have lost the work ethic'. It's much more complicated than that. The taper from benefits to work is too steep; it should not be possible to be worse off in work, but the reality is that it is for many, been all the support falls away at once. Childcare and housing costs are the main issues here.
There's no real incentive for employers to hire people with disabilities and/or chronic health problems; that needs to change so that people can get into work and stay there.
Work is good. But many people need to be enabled to work and we are failing to do that.

@pointythings exactly.

With the greatest of respect to other posters here, and without trying to police the thread, there are loads of threads where you can hash out your thoughts on benefits. I hide most of them as they make me feel really shit (my DH gets PIP). If the benefit bashing starts up on this thread I am out.

I’m so glad you posted that @Alexandra2001 because I’m so conflicted I’m turning myself inside out. My lifelong belief is that we should have a welfare state that supports people when they’re too vulnerable to look after themselves and nothing will move me from that. But we can’t go on like this with the number of claims growing every day.

I entirely agree with this We need to stop allowing people to chose to stay at home because they have lost the work ethic... it can be regained!. We simply can’t keep paying people not to work because they’re anxious, it’s not fair to low waged workers who are struggling to keep their heads above water.

I entirely agree that we need to pivot to taxing wealth as well as income. We’re in a situation where the wealthiest are hoarding most of the wealth while the rest fight over the crumbs and the time has come to say “Enough”.

Edited to add that I think we should leave disability benefits alone completely but long term sickness benefits are ripe for reform.