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Ukraine Invasion: Part 55

1000 replies

MagicFox · 01/03/2025 19:58

We're on 55. Slava Ukraini πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ That last one went quickly!

Agreed thread guidance:
A. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events
B. If you post a link please tell us where it leads/give a precis of the content
C. Discussion and debate is welcome, but please keep it respectful

OP posts:
Thread gallery
183
MagicFox · 04/03/2025 07:13

Yes, this is what it's all about

@yarotrof

What the Trump administration seems to be most interested in is engineering a strategic rapprochement with Russia, not in ending the war in Ukraine. Ukraine is supposed to be just currency for that deal, which is why it causes so much anger when it shows agency of its own.

OP posts:
MagicFox · 04/03/2025 07:17

"β€œThe Trump administration has publicly and privately signaled that it does not believe Russia represents a cyber threat against US national security or critical infrastructure, marking a radical departure from longstanding intelligence assessments”

β€œA person familiar with the matter … said analysts at the agency were verbally informed that they were not to follow or report on Russian threats, even though this had previously been a main focus for the agency.”

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/28/trump-russia-hacking-cyber-security

Meanwhile, aid stopped:

'The order takes effect immediately and affects more than $1 billion in arms and ammunition in the pipeline and on order. Mr. Trump’s directive also halts hundreds of millions of dollars in aid that Kyiv can use only to buy new military hardware directly from U.S. defense companies'.

(NY times)

OP posts:
MagicFox · 04/03/2025 07:18

I feel despairing

OP posts:
mids2019 · 04/03/2025 07:18

I don't know if this is too late or sheer fancy but isn't there a cohort of senior military figures/politicians/media figures//academics in the US that can come together to support the idea that Trumps decisions are eroding alliances that are fundamental to a world order that shouldn't be dependent on the decisons of a single term president?

The US political system is brilliant in that it gives checks and balances on unfettered power yet here I see power being used in ways that may harm US long term interests and the the hands of future leaders and congress.

As for Trump being a Russian agent? This will be the subject of huge speculation for coming historians and whilst I would have thought the idea entirely fanciful originally perhaps there is some truth to this. Trump at least is open to Putin's rhetoric and there maybe possible threats to himself or his family that are unknown and maybe will remain unknown that have caused such extreme policy making.

I think the UK is crucial in terms of any hope of change from the US as Trump has a respect for the UK (as do at lot of Americans) which is a result of our shared language and history). The UK were the first to offer military assistance in the US war on terror and I don't think the US has forgotten that (as well as joint enterprise during WW2). If the UK leads where the US isn't in terms of western interest Trump may realise eventually he is on the wrong side of history and will be written up as a petulant President who inflicted lasting damage on NATO and western alliances.

mids2019 · 04/03/2025 07:20

Scary thought.....

Is there still a nuclear umbrella around Europe for the US currsntly? Would Ukriane enjoy a US repose in the event of some sort of nuclear weapon use on Ukrainian soil?

MagicFox · 04/03/2025 07:23

mids2019 · 04/03/2025 07:20

Scary thought.....

Is there still a nuclear umbrella around Europe for the US currsntly? Would Ukriane enjoy a US repose in the event of some sort of nuclear weapon use on Ukrainian soil?

Putin doesn't need to do this . Ukraine is being gift wrapped

OP posts:
MagicFox · 04/03/2025 07:25

mids2019 · 04/03/2025 07:18

I don't know if this is too late or sheer fancy but isn't there a cohort of senior military figures/politicians/media figures//academics in the US that can come together to support the idea that Trumps decisions are eroding alliances that are fundamental to a world order that shouldn't be dependent on the decisons of a single term president?

The US political system is brilliant in that it gives checks and balances on unfettered power yet here I see power being used in ways that may harm US long term interests and the the hands of future leaders and congress.

As for Trump being a Russian agent? This will be the subject of huge speculation for coming historians and whilst I would have thought the idea entirely fanciful originally perhaps there is some truth to this. Trump at least is open to Putin's rhetoric and there maybe possible threats to himself or his family that are unknown and maybe will remain unknown that have caused such extreme policy making.

I think the UK is crucial in terms of any hope of change from the US as Trump has a respect for the UK (as do at lot of Americans) which is a result of our shared language and history). The UK were the first to offer military assistance in the US war on terror and I don't think the US has forgotten that (as well as joint enterprise during WW2). If the UK leads where the US isn't in terms of western interest Trump may realise eventually he is on the wrong side of history and will be written up as a petulant President who inflicted lasting damage on NATO and western alliances.

I also would love to hear more dissenting voices and more robust challenging, but things seem pretty quiet given the scale of how bad it is

OP posts:
notimagain · 04/03/2025 07:34

dibly · 04/03/2025 01:10

Also US citizens on Threads have just shared the whole video of the Trump Zelenskyy meeting on Friday- apparently most people have only seen the heated exchange so don’t have the context - is that right @MissConductUS? think we should all share the hell out of the whole meeting.

Also US citizens on Threads have just shared the whole video of the Trump Zelenskyy meeting on Friday- apparently most people have only seen the heated exchange so don’t have the context

Just in case there’s any misconception the full sit down was shown live on at least two rolling news channels available in UK/Europe (I was watching one of them in Euroland) and at least one UK based channel rebroadcast the whole thing live within an hour or so of it finishing.

Many non US citizens are fully aware of the context.

MagicFox · 04/03/2025 07:36

Exactly this.

Anders Puck Neilson:

I think Trump's goal is to save his peace process by forcing Ukraine to make peace on any terms, but we are trending closer to a scenario that includes a collapse of NATO. What Trump is doing is detrimental for European security, and it is unsustainable to have an ally that behaves like that.

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DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 04/03/2025 07:36

Ill have to do the roundup later, after 2pm.

mids2019 · 04/03/2025 07:46

I just wonder if constitutionally the US should have a mechanism to allow debate and voted in congress of a president decide s to act in ways that alter the long term geopolitical stance of the US as this stance can span generations and to my mind shouldn't be the preserve of one president of administration.

We have no polling figure s for the US public showing opinion on loosening of alliances with Europe on this issue. The long term implications for NAT O remain uncrenian ; in my opinion it retains huge strength but surely this a blow? The Baltic states must now have a huge fear looking forward in terms of potential Russian aggression and the US potentially clashing with Russia over these states looks horribly remote with the current adninjstration.

Europe can rise to the challenge but the prospect of joint European defence strategy without the US must raise smiles on the Kremlin.

the scary thing for Easten Europe will be the arguments made that Western Europe is subsiding the East in term s of military support and I can see relationships in this front confidentially eroded.

massive win for the Kremlin and I hate to st or but a result of a disinformation campaign that is the result of the intefnet.

Natsku · 04/03/2025 08:04

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 03/03/2025 19:43

Anyone else getting trouble with Mumsnet pushing us to remove ad blockers or pay ?

Yeah. I had to unblock ads but I was able to keep tracking cookies blocked.

MMBaranova · 04/03/2025 08:34

Try the Brave browser if you are using a laptop or desktop. I am not getting the site messages I was using Edge and now see expanses of grey along the side with the word Advertisement at the top of each.

MagicFox · 04/03/2025 08:41

My head is swivelling from all the contradictory info. Any thoughts on this? Esp @notimagain @MissConductUS

Ukraine Invasion: Part 55
OP posts:
MMBaranova · 04/03/2025 08:49

Yes I spotted that and thought it was odd. I suppose that's after annexation.

notimagain · 04/03/2025 08:54

MMBaranova · 04/03/2025 08:49

Yes I spotted that and thought it was odd. I suppose that's after annexation.

That’s part I think of a plan that’s been in the pipeline for several years, all to do with or as a a parallel to a long standing NATO Nuclear Weapons Sharing program…(usually involves the B-61 weapon)..

Given events however..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb#:~:text=B61%20tactical%20variants%20are%20deployed,Netherlands%20and%20Incirlik%20in%20Turkey.

B61 nuclear bomb - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb#:~:text=B61%20tactical%20variants%20are%20deployed,Netherlands%20and%20Incirlik%20in%20Turkey.

1dayatatime · 04/03/2025 08:54

@Alexandra2001

"Can we in Europe step up in time?

Could Europe fill the gap?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A218e9040-c13c-48e7-820c-84ba7e8ca061#post

Basically Europe would need to double their military aid to Ukraine, but areas like ammunition are harder to fill.

My frustration is that US presidents have been asking their European NATO allies for over 60 years to increase their defence spending and they didn't, preferring to freeload on US taxpayer funded defence. Some countries like Spain are still doing this but now hoping to freeload on UK, French and German taxpayers instead.

I was shocked 12 months ago when Trump announced that he would pull military aid to Ukraine so I'm not surprised by this morning's news.

But it is what it is and right now Ukraine needs to negotiate from a position of strength, time is fast running out otherwise it will be a diktat peace deal that will only set up future conflicts. It is now up to Europe to help Ukraine with real support like 155mm artillery ammunition and not just supportive words.

We need to move on from the point that the US is not going to help Ukraine. Complaining about the US may make us feel better but it's not going to help the poor front line Ukrainian soldier who is running out of ammunition.

It is hypocritical of European nations to criticise the US for not supporting Ukraine through US taxpayers and providing US boots on the ground when many European are also refusing to do the same

MMBaranova · 04/03/2025 09:15

Empire of Lies 1

American politicians, political scientists and journalists themselves write and say that in recent years, an actual β€œempire of lies” has been created inside the United States. It’s hard to disagree with that, as it’s true. But let us not understate: the United States is a great country, a system-forming power. All her satellites not only dutifully agree, sing along to its music, but also copy its behaviour, and enthusiastically accept the rules they are offered. Therefore, with good reason, we can confidently say that the entire so-called Western bloc, formed by the United States in its own image and likeness, all of it is an ’empire of lies'.

MMBaranova · 04/03/2025 09:16

Empire of Lies 2

That's Putin, not me. I'll post a link shortly, but it will probably be blocked for a while.

MMBaranova · 04/03/2025 09:20

Empire of Lies 3

I went back to the address Putin made when he launched his Coup de Main against Ukraine.

As he gets deeper into the address to the Russian and Ukrainian people and the armed forces on both sides (telling the Ukrainians to not fight) he covers 'Ukraine was ours', 'Nazis' and so on, but the first long chunk where he justifies the attack is... America.

US led NATO expansion forced him to act.

The irony.

Igotjelly · 04/03/2025 09:25

I feel completely and utterly exhausted with all of this at the moment so can only imagine how the Ukrainians are feeling. I wonder if we’ll see another mass exodus of refugees given that without US aid some analysts say Ukraine could have as little as 6-12 months left.

Natsku · 04/03/2025 09:31

It's just all so worrying and depressing right now. I expect there will be quite a lot of refugees leaving ukraine soon.

Igotjelly · 04/03/2025 09:33

Natsku · 04/03/2025 09:31

It's just all so worrying and depressing right now. I expect there will be quite a lot of refugees leaving ukraine soon.

I feel like I sound so tone deaf given it’s not my loved ones dying on the front lines but honestly I feel like my mental health is just nosediving by the minute every time the orange blimp opens his mouth or types another rant on Truth Social with his fat sausage fingers (and yeh petty personal insults make me feel mildly better).

1dayatatime · 04/03/2025 09:44

@Natsku

"It's just all so worrying and depressing right now."

I agree - It is just so frustrating and depressing that this current situation was so predictable over a year ago.

Still I'm sure that the Ukrainian soldiers stood in cold wet trenches and running low on ammunition feel so much more motivated by words of support from European leaders but no ammunition.

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