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Ukraine Invasion: Part 55

1000 replies

MagicFox · 01/03/2025 19:58

We're on 55. Slava Ukraini πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ That last one went quickly!

Agreed thread guidance:
A. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events
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OP posts:
Thread gallery
183
mids2019 · 02/03/2025 07:01

Baked in

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 02/03/2025 08:41

AcquadiP · 01/03/2025 22:42

They're meeting tomorrow, that pic is of a previous meeting.

Oops thanks @AcquadiP

MagicFox · 02/03/2025 08:49

Putin can’t afford peace – Russia’s economy is hooked on war
The invasion of Ukraine wrecked Moscow’s finances – but it’s now the Kremlin’s only source of growth
(The Telegraph, Melissa Lawford)

Vranyo” is a Russian word for a specific type of lying.
β€œI once translated it for one of our ministers as β€˜epic, bare-faced whopper that we both know cannot possibly be true, but I’m going to tell you anyway’,” says Sir Laurie Bristow, who was the UK’s ambassador to Russia from January 2016 until January 2020.
It is a concept that sits at the heart of Vladimir Putin’s statecraft. And it is about power.
β€œI had it done to me repeatedly in meetings. It’s not necessarily to persuade you that their version is true. It’s to cast doubt on the truth, by putting around so much litter that you kind of lose the will to live, you just become demoralised,” says Sir Laurie.
In 2014, for example, after the Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was hit by a Russian-made Buk missile over eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board, the Kremlin fed myths to the press. These included first the claim that the plane was shot down by Ukraine, and then a story that the CIA had filled a plane with bodies and crashed it to discredit the state.
It is this type of vranyo that has fuelled Russia’s isolation on the world stage. Long before the full-scale invasion of Ukraine made Putin an international pariah, Moscow was kept at arm’s length by the West.
Donald Trump seems blissfully unaware of Russia’s track record – or at least doesn’t care. He has launched a mission to reset ties with Moscow and promised β€œto get that war over” in Ukraine. In doing so, he has shocked the international community by upending Western foreign policy, reopening ties with the Russian president and ruling out offering US security guarantees or Nato membership for Ukraine.
After he met with Sir Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister, on Thursday, Trump told reporters that Putin would β€œkeep his word” if a peace deal is secured. But even a peace deal in Putin’s favour would not get around the fact that** Russia has become economically and ideologically addicted to war.
Russia’s economy is creaking under the weight of war, wracked by labour shortages, sanctions, high inflation and record interest rates. But equally, the conflict is its only remaining engine of growth.
After three years of war, nationalist anti-Western propaganda has also become the basis of Putin’s power.
β€œPutin does not want peace and he’s not going to settle,” says Simon Johnson, MIT professor and former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund (IMF). β€œHe’s enjoying the war. It’s awful. But he doesn’t want to end the war.”
Trump believes forging economic links with Ukraine will be enough to deter future conflict. But a peace deal will not quell the imperialist fire in Putin’s belly.
β€œTrump is greatly deceived by Mr Putin,” says Johnson. β€œTrump wants a quick victory. He wants a triumph and a show and Putin is going to play him along. He’s being played.”
War machine
Russia is hooked on military spending. In 2019, Russia spent 5 trillion roubles (Β£45bn) on defence and security combined, or 28pc of its total government spending. This year, in nominal terms, the bill will be 17 trillion roubles – 41pc of all government spending.
The war economy now makes up between 8pc and 10pc of Russia’s GDP. β€œFor a country that is waging a war not on its own soil, that is a lot,” says Alexander Kolyandr, of the Center for European Policy Analysis (CEPA). The war industry has become the main driver of the Russian economy.
On the surface at least, all this spending is fuelling a strong economy. Russia’s real GDP grew by 3.6pc in 2024, according to the IMF – more than triple the growth seen in Britain last year. Real wages in Russia rose by 9.4pc in 2024, according to Rosstat, the Kremlin’s statistics agency.
But only one business is booming: war.
β€œThe manufacturing industry, which includes the defence industry, was the only sector that showed growth in 2024,” says Alexandra Prokopenko, a fellow at the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center who worked at Russia’s Central Bank until 2022.
Russia has doubled production of armoured vehicles, while some ammunition manufacturers have quintupled their output. Manufacturing production jumped by 7.6pc in the first nine months of last year.
But outside sectors directly linked to the military, growth is anaemic at best, says Prokopenko.
β€œConsumer spending is driven by larger salaries to servicemen or even payouts to casualties,” says Agnia Grigas, of the Atlantic Council’s Eurasia Center.
The war effort is sucking investment and manpower away from the non-military sector, leaving the private sector to shrivel.
β€œOver time, Russia’s ability to maintain and develop a dynamic non-military economy is being cannibalised,” says Sir Laurie.
β€œIf they ever come to unwinding the war economy, there won’t be the civilian economy left to take up the slack.”
Rather than prepare for peace, the Kremlin is doubling down on its war machine. In its autumn budget, the government raised its projections for military spending and cut nominal spending on social policy. β€œMilitary spending has started to become some kind of black hole,” says Andrei Yakovlev, associate at Harvard’s Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies.
Meanwhile, prices are soaring, bringing misery for ordinary Russians. Inflation averaged 12.1pc in the last three months of 2024, price growth averaged 12.1pc. Interest rates have soared to a post-Soviet high of 21pc as Russia’s central bank scrambled to combat runaway price rises.
Yet the main problem is not something that can easily be solved by monetary policy: a lack of manpower.
By one estimate, 172,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in the war so far and a further 611,000 have been wounded. In September, Putin said he wanted to increase the size of the Russian army by 180,000 to 1.5m active servicemen. At least 650,000 emigres who fled Russia when the war began are still abroad, according to The Bell, a Russian independent economic news outlet.
There are not enough workers for the rest of the economy. Russia’s unemployment rate has plunged to an all-time record low of 2.3pc. Even Kremlin-linked analysts calculate that Russia needs an additional 1.6m workers.
Removing the state-engine of war spending would plunge Russia into an economic stagnation on the scale not seen since the Soviet Union in the 1980s, says Kolyandr.
β€œThey will continue to spend on military production not only to restock their arsenal but also to keep the economy from sliding into recession.”
Russia does not have any other levers to support the economy. Its services sector is not globally competitive and its technology sector is backward. β€œThere is no way that they can export,” says Kolyandr.
The key strength of Russia’s economy has always been its oil and gas exports, but the world has turned away from its fossil fuel industry in the years since the war in Ukraine began. Europe has diversified, the US has emerged as a leading exporter of liquefied natural gas (LNG), and even Russia’s new energy buyers, India and China, would be hesitant to become dependent on the state for their supplies.
β€œThe Russian leadership has boasted that its economy has been growing despite sanctions. That has been because of military production. So that would have to continue, because no alternatives have been figured out,” says Grigas.
A Russian economy without war will simply be a Russian economy preparing for war, says Johnson.
β€œWhether you call it war or whether you call it peace, it doesn’t matter. It’s still a militarised economy, funded by oil,” he says.
β€œEven if there is β€˜peace’, Russia will scale up their armaments. This is the political economy equilibrium keeping Putin in power.”
β€˜Straight out of Machiavelli’
Until 2005, Sir Bill Browder was the largest foreign investor in Russia. Then he was banned from entering the country for exposing corruption in Russian state-owned companies.
In 2008, his lawyer Sergei Magnitsky uncovered a huge fraud committed by Russian government officials that involved the theft of $230m (Β£180m) in state taxes. Magnitsky was arrested, imprisoned without trial, tortured and eventually died in prison in 2009.
Corruption goes to the heart of the Russian state, Sir Bill says. It has rotted out the country’s core and is now pushing Putin to launch attacks abroad to shore up his regime.
β€œPutin needs war very specifically as a way to stay in power. If you look at the history of his presidency, every time his popularity has started to diminish, he started a war,” says Sir Bill.

Sir Bill Browder believes Putin starts wars to stay in powerCredit: Tolga Akmen/AFP via Getty Images
Take, for example, Russia’s wars with Chechnya in the run up to Putin’s first election as president in 2000, Russia’s five-day war with Georgia in 2008 (which an EU-backed report said was started by Georgia following Russian provocation), and Russia’s annexation of Crimea and eastern Ukraine in 2014.
In 2022, when Putin launched his full-scale invasion of Ukraine, his popularity had been hammered by the Covid pandemic.
β€œThis is straight out of Machiavelli,” Sir Bill says. β€œIf you’re worried about people being angry with you, you create a foreign enemy and you start a war.”
Russians are far more patriotic than Britons and opposition to the West unites nationalist sentiment, says Sir Tony Brenton, who was the UK’s ambassador to Russia from 2004 to 2008.
β€œIn the current situation, everybody knows that Russia is up against the West, or believes that it is, and that is the sort of situation where Russians instinctively gather around their leader because they feel that the external threat is a direct threat to them,” he says.
The war may be hammering Russia’s economy, but it has also given Putin more licence to crack down on civic society, tightening personal liberties and freedom of expression.
Putin banned Facebook and Instagram in 2022 after labelling their parent company Meta β€œextremist”. In the same year, the Russian state revoked the media licence of one of the country’s few independent news outlets, Novaya Gazeta, forcing its closure. Various foreign reporters have been expelled.
β€œWartime society and wartime politics is beneficial in keeping the current regime in power,” says Grigas.

Putin’s foreign wars have shored up public support for him at home Credit: Pavel Bednyakov/AFP via Getty Images
War is also making some people very rich. The nephew of Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov was appointed head of the seized Russian subsidiary of French yoghurt maker Danone in 2023, for example, before being sold at a heavy discount to local businessmen in the region.
The Kovalchuk brothers, oligarchs with close ties to Putin, have also gained new influence, says Yakovlev. Umar Kremlev, who is now the owner of the Rolf company, the car dealer nationalised by the Russian government in 2023, similarly has new status.
β€œIn my view war can be in their interests,” says Yakovlev.
β€œPutin needs one of two things in order to maintain the stability of the regime,” says Sir Laurie. β€œOne is pretty much perpetual conflict with the West. The other is victory over the West.”
β€˜Rotten and corrupt’
Vranyo surfaces in many different ways in Russia. For a period of months while Sir Tony was ambassador, he was trailed by members of an aggressive pro-Kremlin youth group called Nashi.
β€œThey were in groups of three or four. But it was all over the country. If I flew to give a speech somewhere, they knew where I was going, they’d get themselves there, into the meeting, and then they would shout abuse,” says Sir Tony.
β€œThey were given free way by the traffic police. It was very clear they had authority from the Russian government to do what they were doing.”
State structures in Russia are not known for being honest and reliable.
β€œNobody in Russia, certainly when I was there and I don’t think it has changed since, takes a driving test,” says Sir Tony. β€œWhat they do is they bribe the examiner. Because the system itself is so rotten and corrupt that it’s much easier to fork out small sums of money than to go through procedures that are not very dependable.”
The US president has suggested that a key motive for Russia to make peace in Europe would be the prospect of combined US-Russian business interests.
Marco Rubio, the US secretary of state, told Moscow delegates in Riyadh last month that the US and Russia could pursue β€œpotentially historic economic partnerships” and β€œincredible opportunities” if Putin ends the war. US and Russian officials are reportedly in talks about joint exploration of natural resources in the Arctic.

Trump’s secretary of state Marco Rubio (right) seeks to strengthen ties with Russia as he meets foreign minister Sergei Lavrov in Saudi Arabia Credit: SPA/AFP via Getty Images
However, Trump’s discussion of business ties with Russia are a fantasy, says Sir Bill. β€œNobody in their right mind is going to invest in Russia right now, that’s insane. It is not going to happen in a million years.
β€œI can tell you, as previously the largest foreign investor in the country, nobody is going to put a penny into it. There’s no rule of law. You’ll lose your money and you’ll get killed. That is what happens in Russia. It’s a toxic business environment. It’s uninvestable.”
Johnson at MIT is similarly blunt: β€œAny foreign investor in Russia is insane and should immediately be fired by their shareholders.”
Trump’s surrender
Trumpworld is blasΓ© about all this. So far, it has granted a series of concessions to Russia in an attempt to draw Putin closer to peace.
First came a prisoner exchange, during which US special envoy to the Middle East Steve Witkoff said he β€œspent a lot of time with President Putin, talking, developing a friendship, a relationship with him”.
Then came a 90-minute call between Trump and Putin, a meeting between US and Russian officials in Riyadh and then more talks last week in Istanbul.
Last month at the United Nations General Assembly, the US voted alongside Russia, Belarus and North Korea against a European resolution condemning Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine as an unprovoked attack – a vote which even China, Russia’s most important ally, abstained from.
John Bolton, who served as Trump’s national security adviser during his first administration, has described the US president as Putin’s puppet.
β€œThis is essentially surrendering to the Russian position,” says Bolton.
Trump thinks foreign policy is based on personal relations, but Putin is not moved by personal ties.
β€œHe’s as cold-blooded as it comes in pursuing Russia’s national interests,” Bolton says. β€œTrump doesn’t get it. He thinks he and Putin are friends.
β€œThis former KGB agent has been manipulating him for the past couple of weeks to get what he wants and Trump doesn’t even realise.”

β€˜Cold-blooded’ Putin is manipulating Trump, says the president’s ex-national security adviser Credit: Brendan Smialowski / AFP
The president may be able to secure a ceasefire but any kind of peace will only be temporary. Putin will only use the time to rearm.
β€œIf you get a ceasefire across existing frontlines, I think that will freeze into a new border,” says Bolton.
Whatever happens next will have big geopolitical implications. Aside from Putin’s own ambitions, China is watching closely for an indication of how much the West will care if it were to make a move on Taiwan.
β€œI think their calculus is if the US and Nato won’t stand up against aggression on the continent of Europe, the US is very unlikely to do anything significant in a faraway place like Taiwan,” says Bolton. β€œIt is very dangerous.”
Timothy Ash, of Chatham House’s Russia and Eurasia programme, says Trump may simply not care. β€œFor him, Ukraine is a European problem. I think Trump will agree anything to get a quick ceasefire and he won’t really care about whether it’s sustainable, that is for the Europeans to sort out.”
What should European leaders do? Starmer and Macron should step up cash support for Ukraine so that it can buy US weapons, says Johnson.
Sir Bill argues the best way to do this would be to seize $300bn in frozen Russian assets – an idea that has been advocated by UK David Lammy, the Foreign Secretary, but which critics argue could undermine the legal system.
Bolton has an even cheaper, but perhaps more controversial suggestion. The best thing that European leaders can do is convince Trump that it is in his personal interests to support Ukraine, he says.
β€œIt’s not worth talking about what’s going to happen in Ukraine. It won’t even move him really talking about what US national interests are. Everything with Trump is personal and he wants the Nobel Peace Prize,” says Bolton. β€œStarmer ought to offer to nominate him.”
If Trump were to win the prize, there would almost certainly be a grim irony. As Russia’s war machine chunters on, few are convinced that any peace deal would last.

OP posts:
DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 02/03/2025 10:23

Thank you very much for that @MagicFox Comprehensive summary.

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 02/03/2025 10:28

@mids2019 I would love to think that there's some sort of genuine reliability remaining between the US and the EU but sadly I'm more convinced that an excessive love for money and personal power has hollowed out the political processes leading to the current parlous state of affairs, and I'm not convinced that the US would fulfil its NATO commitments myself, at least not under Trump.

I could see that some people are working very hard to restore relations with the US but Trump has gone so far and is so volatile and unreasonable than any restored relations can't really be relied on, as far as I can see. He places the personal over the professional and that means he is deeply unstable as a leader.

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 02/03/2025 10:39

Kyiv Post Telegram Highlights

⚑️NATO Secretary General calls for Zelensky to 'restore (kyivindependent.com/nato-secretary-general-calls-for-zelensky-to-restore-relationship-with-trump-following-oval-office-clash/) relationship' with Trump following Oval Office clash.

⚑️Canada’s Trudeau heads to European defense (kyivindependent.com/trudeau-heads-to-european-defense-summit-in-london/) summit in London.

⚑️Macron, Starmer working to pacify Zelensky-Trump relations (https://kyivindependent.com/macron-starmer-working-to-pacify-zelensky-trump-relations-because-what-is-at-stake-is-too-important/) 'because what is at stake is too important.' 

⚑️ UK, France, Ukraine to develop ceasefire plan (https://kyivindependent.com/uk-france-ukraine-to-discuss-ceasefire-plan-to-present-to-us/) to present to US.

⚑️ Hungary, Slovakia threaten (kyivindependent.com/hungary-slovakia-threaten-eu-unity-on-russia-ukraine-ahead-of-key-summit/) EU unity on Russia, Ukraine ahead of key summit.
Leaders of Slovakia and Hungary on March 1 threatened to block EU statements during a key summit next week unless the bloc calls for an immediate ceasefire and launches talks with Russia.

⚑️Elon Musk publicly supports call (kyivindependent.com/elon-musk-publicly-supports-call-for-us-to-exit-nato-un/) for US to exit NATO, UN

⚑️Pro-Russian European politicians openly support Trump (kyivindependent.com/pro-russian-european-politicians-support-trump-after-clash-with-zelensky/) after clash with Zelensky.

⚑️Russian forces suffer record vehicle losses (kyivindependent.com/russian-forces-lost-most-vehicles-since-beginning-of-all-out-war-in-past-month/) in February.

⚑️'We stand with Ukraine' β€” Starmer reaffirms support (kyivindependent.com/we-stand-with-ukraine-starmer-says-during-meeting-with-zelensky/) for Ukraine during meeting with Zelensky.

⚑️UK to provide $2.8 billion loan (kyivindependent.com/uk-provides-2-8-billion-loan-to-ukraine-backed-by-frozen-russian-assets/) to Ukraine backed by frozen Russian assets.

⚑️Italy to provide Ukraine with $13 million to restore (kyivindependent.com/italy-to-provide-13-million-toward-restoring-ukraines-energy-infrastructure/) energy infrastructure.

⚑️ Lithuania invests $21 million (kyivindependent.com/lithuania-invests-21-million-in-ukraines-arms-industry-agrees-to-joint-production/) in Ukraine's arms industry, agrees to joint production.

⚑️ Russia pushing disinformation (kyivindependent.com/russia-spreading-disinformation-to-damage-ukraines-ties-with-armenia-azerbaijan-intelligence-claims/) to damage Ukraine's ties with Armenia, Azerbaijan, intel claims.

⚑️US halts cyber operations (kyivindependent.com/us-halts-cyber-operations-against-russia-media-reports/) against Russia, media reports.

⚑️ Putin ally pushing for US, Russia restart of Nord Stream 2 (kyivindependent.com/ft-nord-stream-restart-talks/), FT reports.
Matthias Warnig, who led Nord Stream 2’s parent company on behalf of Kremlin-controlled gas giant Gazprom until 2023, is reportedly trying to establish contact with U.S. President Donald Trump's team through American businessmen.

⚑️Russian proxy claims IAEA team arrives at Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant via occupied territory (kyivindependent.com/russian-proxy-claims-iaea-team-arrives-at-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-plant-via-occupied-territory/).

⚑️Israel wants US to keep Syria 'weak' by allowing Russian bases (kyivindependent.com/israel-wants-us-to-keep-syria-weak-by-allowing-russian-bases-sources-tell-reuters/), sources tell Reuters.
Israeli officials have told Washington that Syria's new Islamist rulers, who ousted pro-Russian Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad, will pose a threat to Israel's borders if backed by Turkey, Reuters wrote, citing four sources familiar with the communications.

Bernie Sanders on Trump’s alignment with Russia
()
U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders sat down with the Kyiv Independent on Feb. 27 to share his concerns about Trump’s growing alignment with Russia and other authoritarian regimes, what a possible U.S.-Russia alliance would mean for the American people, the role of billionaires like Elon Musk in shaping both domestic and international political discourse, and why defending Ukraine is crucial for the future of global democracy.

⚑️Ukrainians, foreigners raised (kyivindependent.com/ukrainians-raised-hr-22-mln-for-nukes-in-hours-after-the-white-house-clash/) Hr 27 million 'for nukes' hours after Zelensky-Trump White House clash.
Ukrainians and foreign donors have sent over 27 million hryvnia ($649,000) in donations to the fundraiser "for nukes" that was opened immediately after the publicized White House clash between U.S. President Donald Trump and President Volodymyr Zelensky.
The "for nukes" reference serves as a joke that refers to President Volodymyr Zelensky's previous assertions that if Western allies are not ready to accept the country into NATO, then the U.S. should provide Ukraine with an alternative security guarantee, such as nuclear weapons.

⚑️Russian missile attack on Odesa damages civilian foreign vessel, casualties (kyivindependent.com/russian-missile-attack-on-odesa-damages-civilian-foreign-vessel-casualties-reported/) reported.

⚑️Russian attacks against Ukraine kill 2, injure 20 (kyivindependent.com/air-force-63-russian-drones-taken-out-by-air-defense-in-overnight-attack/kyivindependent.com/air-force-63-russian-drones-taken-out-by-air-defense-in-overnight-attack/) over past day.

β€ͺRagnar Bjartur Gudmundsson πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦β€¬ β€ͺ
⚑️ WAR IN UKRAINE - MAR 2, 2025
β–  Engagements & casualties stay below the 7-day average
β–  Broad equipment losses; record 7-day drone losses
β–  Visually confirmed: 25 πŸ‡·πŸ‡Ί 28 πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ (0.9x), last 30 days 1.6x
β–  Increased πŸ‡·πŸ‡Ί strikes, strike ratio could be better

Ukraine Invasion: Part 55
DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 02/03/2025 10:45

It looks like Rutte and Macron and perhaps others are taking the view that the US is far too vital to Ukraine's survival and this appalling behaviour has to be swallowed.

Trump and Zelensky just can't get on. I wonder if Zelenskyy, for the sake of his country, will step down. But that would lead to a lot more challenges, as he's a superb front face for Ukraine and has built up warm and solid relations with many leaders. Would anyone else be as good a frontman? and it would take time to build up relations. Although personal relationships aside, I think most leaders realise that Russia is an active threat and would work with a new person for that alone.

AcquadiP · 02/03/2025 10:48

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 02/03/2025 08:41

Oops thanks @AcquadiP

No worries. I'm really pleased the King is meeting him again today after that awful run in with Trump and Vance. And I'm no fan of Starmer but his warmth towards Zelensky yesterday was impressive.

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 02/03/2025 10:50

UNITED24 Media Telegram Highlights

Reuters: TΓΌrkiye to reiterate offer to host Ukraine-Russia talks in London

One of Norway's largest fuel companies, Haltbakk Bunkers, has refused to refuel US Navy ships due to Trump's scandalous behavior at yesterday's meeting with Zelensky. "This is betrayal!" they declared. As a result, the Virginia submarine returned without fuel.

Russia rejoices over Zelenskyy-Trump dispute
Russian Security Council Deputy Chairman Dmitry Medvedev wrote on Telegram, insulting Zelenskyy, that the Ukrainian president β€œreceived a strong slap from his masters.” β€œThis is useful. But it is not enough β€” we must stop military aid to the Nazi machine,” the former Russian president said.

Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico has announced that Slovakia will not provide financial or military aid to Ukraine. He emphasized that an immediate ceasefire should be part of the EU summit agenda on March 6, regardless of whether a final peace agreement is reached.

Fact Check: Zelenskyy thanked Americans and U.S. leaders 33 times β€” CNN

"This war tests our resilience and courage. And it also shows us who our true friends are," Zaluzhnyi wrote, sharing a photo from his meeting with Zelenskyy.
These days in London, discussions about Ukraine and further support will take center stage. The road ahead is tough, but together, we will overcome everything.

Previously unpublished photo of the destroyed Russian Pantsir-S1 SAM system following a strike on the airfield in Melitopol, Zaporizhzhia region, on July 7, 2024. [Bit of WD40 and it's be right in no time]

Ukraine Invasion: Part 55
Ukraine Invasion: Part 55
Ukraine Invasion: Part 55
DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 02/03/2025 10:53

Kyiv Post Telegram Highlights

Putin’s spokesperson Peskov said that foreign policies under Trump β€œlargely coincide” with the Kremlin’s.
www.kyivpost.com/post/48114

β€œYou have the full backing across the United Kingdom, and we stand with you and Ukraine for as long as it may take” β€” British PM Starmer after his meeting with Zelensky

Ukraine Invasion: Part 55
MagicFox · 02/03/2025 10:58

Elon Musk, a key figure in President Donald Trump’s administration and head of the United States Department of Government Efficiency, has backed calls for the United States to leave the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO).
Musk voiced his support on X (formerly Twitter) on Saturday night when he responded β€œI agree” to a post stating, β€œIt’s time to leave NATO and the UN.” His endorsement aligns with growing calls from some Republican lawmakers, including Senator Mike Lee, to reconsider the US commitment to the alliance.

Lee, a long-time critic of NATO, has described it as a β€œCold War relic” and argued that the alliance β€œhas to come to a halt.” He claims NATO is a β€œgreat deal for Europe” but a β€œraw deal for America”, suggesting that US resources are being stretched to protect Europe while offering little direct benefit to American security.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk/elon-musk-backs-us-withdrawal-from-nato-alliance/

OP posts:
DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 02/03/2025 10:59

Live: Ukraine Telegram Highlights

πŸ‡³πŸ‡΄ Norway Plans to Increase Financial Support for Ukraine
At the end of last year, the Norwegian government approved over $3 billion in military and civilian aid for Ukraine in 2025.

πŸ‡΅πŸ‡± Only the U.S. Can Stop the War in Ukraine, Says Polish President Andrzej Duda
Polish President Andrzej Duda stated that only the United States has the power to end the war in Ukraine.
Duda revealed that he had spoken with Zelensky before the meeting and advised him to approach negotiations with Trump calmly, stressing the need to seek agreements and common ground.
The Polish president acknowledged that β€œa deadlock emerged yesterday” but insisted that talks must resume to reach a solution that ensures Ukraine’s security.

Former President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko stated that he will not criticize President Zelensky following the Washington scandal but urged efforts, with Europe’s help, to β€œbring American partners back to the negotiating table.”

πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡ΈπŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ Zelensky was asked to leave the White House because he continued arguing, said Trump adviser Michael Waltz.

Westfield, Vermont. Several hundred Americans protested against U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance, who was scheduled to visit the town for vacation.
People gathered, among other reasons, to express solidarity with Ukraine following yesterday’s dispute at the White House.

Chief Mouser of the British Prime Minister’s residence, Larry the Cat, on the meeting between Zelensky and Starmer:

A rally in support of Ukraine took place at Times Square in New York

[and somewhat self-indulgently of me:]
Senator Cory Booker supports Ukrainian President Zelensky.
β€œBefore them stood a weary warrior. A man under siege, who had lost thousands of his friends and comrades to the unjust and unlawful aggression of an authoritarian leader. They showed no magnanimity, no diplomatic acumen. They were small bullies with big titles, failing to respect the history and legacy of the nation they lead.”
β€œWe are at our best when we stand firmly against evilβ€”not when we bow to those who create it. We speak our truth when we defend the weakβ€”not just when we are paid to do so. We are America when our leaders call dictators what they areβ€”dictatorsβ€”and those fighting to defend democracy from tyranny what they truly are: heroes.”
β€œDonald Trump and J.D. Vance did not show strength todayβ€”they showed weakness. They diminished a giant and revealed how small they truly are… Today, Donald Trump acted more like Russia’s Putin than the President of America.”

Ukraine Invasion: Part 55
Ukraine Invasion: Part 55
Ukraine Invasion: Part 55
PiggyPigalle · 02/03/2025 11:52

All these demands that Zelensky should apologize. It's horrible.

Give them weapons, terms to be arranged. It's a deal, not a friendship.

To turn a Trump phrase back on himself, "He's a very rude man."
I thought he was rude when he asked Starmer if Britain could fight alone against Russia. Such a fatuous thing to say.
There was a reply to be made there involving Ukraine, but it's akin to a hostage situation. Open your mouth out of turn and something bad will happen to you.

After Friday, I can't imagine Zelensky in the same room as Putin for peace talks. A stubborn man of strong principles against a pathological liar, being told by Vance. "Say thankyou to President Putin."

Positivethought · 02/03/2025 12:15

An eloquent, sobering read - thank you.
Thanks for the new thread @MagicFox.

Igotjelly · 02/03/2025 12:29

I can’t speak for her domestic politics obviously but on Ukraine I have to say that Maloni has been so much better than I expected

blueshoes · 02/03/2025 12:50

I am in a Labour constituency and got a knock on the door this morning from a Labour representative asking how things are going. I said spend more on defence. He said that is a clear message. I said yes, spend more on defence and I am going to write to my MP. Who is my MP?

Any quick thoughts what I should say? I don't propose to write War & Peace but I trust you folks to give me some incisive sound bites. 😁

dibly · 02/03/2025 12:52

Vehemently disagree with Zelenskyy standing down for a number of reasons, he’s been such a lynchpin for Ukraine getting the support this far and has become the emblem of Ukraine. Removing him would be so damaging for morale and show yet again that oppressors can wield too much power over sovereign states.

What I’d like to see from the west are calls for Trump to reconsider (and apologise) and come good on proper negotiations and peace guarantees.

Fico and Orban need to be booted out of the EU pronto.

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 02/03/2025 13:01

I don't agree with Zelensky standing down either!

Just thikning of the pragmatic pros and cons. There are a lot of cons.

AlternativeView · 02/03/2025 14:08

@MagicFox thanks for that incredible first post. There is much there to think about and go over.
Incredible to read about the reliance k on the war ecconomy but re starting wars yes that's old hat techniques for dictators loosing people at home.
It's all a win win for putin isn't it. A brilliant excuse to crack down on freedoms at home and suppress people even more whilst continuing to line his own pockets.

I still don't believe he will dare try and encroach into a nato country however, it will suit him nicely to keep Ukraine rumbling along in deadlock.

A good show of unity is going on at Lancaster House right now and zelensky has just turned up looking refreshed!

AlternativeView · 02/03/2025 14:14

@PiggyPigalle Mark rutte has told zelensky he needs to repair his relationship with Trump and thank him for the javelin and tank stuff he said without that help early on Ukraine would have fallen.

AlternativeView · 02/03/2025 14:15

@MagicFox the last comment, the cheapest way around this is for trump to get back on board and perhaps have starmer offer to nominate him for the peace prize 🀣. Serious I know but it's like leading a puppy with a juicy bone.

Igotjelly · 02/03/2025 14:26

Any idea why the Baltic states haven’t been invited today? I see it’s a sore point and given the World and his wife appears to be in attendance it does seem odd.

Llttledrummergirl · 02/03/2025 14:28

Haven't they said previously that they are all aligned, so one representative is ample?

Igotjelly · 02/03/2025 14:30

Llttledrummergirl · 02/03/2025 14:28

Haven't they said previously that they are all aligned, so one representative is ample?

This is the attendee list, I’m not sure who it is what would be representing the Baltic states.

  • Sir Keir Starmer
  • Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
  • General Secretary of NATO Mark Rutte
  • French President Emmanuel Macron
  • Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk
  • Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson
  • Czech Republic Prime Minister Petr Fiala
  • Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan
  • President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen
  • Norwegian Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Store
  • Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen
  • German Chancellor Olaf Scholz
  • Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau
  • Dutch PM Dick Schoof
  • Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni
  • Finnish Prime Minister Alexander Stubb
  • President of the EU Council, Antonio Costa
  • Romania's interim President Ilie Bolojan
  • Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez
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