DH wants me to 'get over it' re MIL

[stillunderit]

Changed username but I've posted about my decade (and counting) of MIL problems before. She stepped everything up a gear once DC arrived, with grand delusions about the main character role she'd be playing in bringing up our children - tried to send me away to a hotel 3 days after birth of first DC so she could stay at home with my baby (not joking), opened all my new baby gifts while I was asleep, hosted guests in my house while I was sobbing into a breastpump hidden away upstairs. I naively assumed it would pass and we would somehow be okay but it's only gotten worse over the years. Nothing is ever enough for her and although they live 5 hours away from us she thinks we should all be up there so she can 'show off her grandchidlren' to her friends etc. She complains endlessly about us, compares us negatively to friends' children etc, and she's been awful to our DC over the years too - calling my daughter 'special needs looking' in her glasses, insiting they were taken off for wedding photos etc, gaslighting the children and guilt tripping them awfully - 'poor granny never sees you, won't you put flowers in your hair and dance for granny to make her happy.' She once turned around and shouted at my then 3&4 year old DC who were uspet in the back of the car with her, whinging for 'mummy', 'shall I start crying for MY MUMMY and see how you like it!?'. They asked for years not to be left alone with her as she was horrible to them if they missed us at all.

I can't do it all justice at all, and I'm not perfect, obviously, but when I had my third DC something in me flipped and I couldn't face them anymore. She came and complained he slept too much (she woke my first two up and I wouldn't have it the third time around), and finally, when we booked a trip up to see them and booked our own accommodation not the nearby cottage she had apparently booked without asking us she had the hissy fit of the century and sent tens of messages at all hours saying she had no reason to live if we didn't do as she pleased etc. It was unhinged.

I am friendly when they come to visit, but beyond that I have stepped away as I genuinely can't cope with her anymore. More to the point, my marriage can't survive it, my DH has fallen out with her along the way but it all eventually gets swept back under the carpet. If he ever really pulls her up on something specific she literally screams and wails at him denying solid facts. It's not something I can cope with, but it's obviously more normal to him and he has again now asked me to 'get over it' and go and see them at easter as she has been messaging him demanding we all go rather than just my DH and two older DCs. I was looking forward to a bit of a break! She has accused me of 'cancelling' her (Daily Mail reader) and seems to think I should just fall into line and do what she wants as she is entitled to us all up there.

I have dug my heels in and won't go, my DH and I are back into the same old cycles of it and he is asking why I can't just 'get over it' and go and see everyone. When I try and explain (for the hundreth time) he gets shirty and says 'that was years ago' etc as if I'm being stubborn rather than standing up for myself after years of this nonsense. I don't want any drama, I really just want peace and I have totally hit my limit with what I can tolerate. I'm upset that he seems to be thinking of it almost like he is caught between two difficult women and I really don't think I have been (I put up with so much for so long).

This is now so long, and I don't even know what I'm asking. Does anyone have any experience of this sort of stuff? Do I sound like I'm being obstinate now to stick to my guns?

TLDR: DH wants me to forget MILs decade of awful behaviour and go back to spending holiday time with them for an easy life.

I think you need to tell him very calmly that it is your holiday/break too and that you don’t want to and will not spend it with someone you do not like

The trouble with a history of really horrible moments as you have OP is that once that has built up the aggressor only needs to make a small seemingly "harmless" comment or action to remind the person they are picking on of the effect of previous incidents... reminding them of their power and the person's isolation, which means the small incident can still cut deep, because of the history behind it. .
And that actually can make it harder to make a stand because
"But all I said was xyz"

But There is a very old saying "You may as well be hung for stealing a sheep as a lamb." I guess it means if you are going to have to suffer the punishment of the outcry anyway you may as well make it worth your while.

He needs to text.. Sorry We have already made our own holiday plans and we will not be visiting...That's all he needs to say. on repeat.

It's not OP doing the poor parenting.

You have a husband problem here. He should have your back as the mother of his children and he should be willing to go no-contact with such an obvious narcissist.

As usual, I'm going to suggest that you divorce him. Then you don't have to see her ever again and you don't have to watch your respect for this mummy's boy disappear until nothing but contempt for him remains.

I agree with PP that he unfortunately is very deep in his fear, obligation and guilt regards his mother. It wasn't until I was in my 40s did I realise I was being emotionally blackmailed by my own DM (my DH gently helped me realise); I was being made responsible for her own happiness because she lacked the skills to be happy on her own or with my DF. It has taken years for me to extract myself from it all and I'm still not through it all yet; I don't think I ever will be until she dies. That kind of 'conditioning' is hardwired from being a child and I fear your DH has experienced similar with his mother. I would pretty much guarantee he'll need counselling to 'see' the bigger picture.

Poor you OP. You sound utterly exhausted with it all. But I think you need to hold your line/boundary with your DH and MIL for your own mental health and that of your DC.

If your DH brings it up again, as other PP have said 'I've already said no and given my reasons' will be enough to repeat, repeat, repeat. I also think it unfair that you send any of the DC with your DH to spend time with her. What message does that send your DC? That Grandma isn't allowed to piss me off/annoy/offend me anymore but you're fair game? That's can't sit right with you surely? I'd be so worried that she'd say shit about me to them and your DH would then tell them not to say a word to you about it...

I agree her husband is letting down the kids. But so is OP. She finds MIL too toxic / difficult but is prepared to let her older 2 kids have to deal with her. That’s not ok.

I really dont understand women like this .Dont they want their Sons to be happy? I cant imagine treating anyone like shit.Either shes very insecure or totally deranged or both! Obv you want DH to be happy Can you as someone upthread, said go to stay nearby at a Holiday Inn or similar. let DH see them alone .Its not fair on you and your MH otherwise .No one should feel anxious about seeing family members

She sounds dreadful. I am virtually nc with my in laws (PILs are dead) and it is blissful.

My response to a suicide threat under slightly different circumstances was "Oh, ok, but I'm not qualified to deal with that so I'm going to pass all your details to the police in a moment. Can I just check you want a cremation and not a burial?" Funnily enough she never did commit suicide, she realised how little effect empty threats were going to have on me.

Please don't send your older DC at Easter or any time, unless they are actually begging to go. Even then, check with them that they fully understand the situation. They do not deserve to be subjected to a madwoman. Think of it in terms of child protection, if she was anyone else but your DHs husband would you want them to see her?

I've been married before and my ex ILs (both deceased now, sadly) were fine...I wasn't very close to them, but didn't mind spending time with them and they were always supportive of myself and ex husband. Ex FIL died only 6 months ago and I was genuinely sad.

I've been with my current partner for 15 years, and his parents...oh dear. In my case it's FIL that's the main problem. He's a racist, sexist, homophobic brexit voting arsehole. And like your MIL, a control freak to boot! He cannot seem to get his head around the idea that he doesn't get to tell me, another adult, what to do. As I've said to my partner many many times, I wouldn't take that shit from my own parent, I'm certainly not taking it from yours!

I was 41 when I met my partner. After a particularly disastrous weekend away with them (and other family) when we'd been together two years, I had had enough. Went totally no contact with both of them. When MIL died 18 months ago, I hadn't had any contact, hadn't seen them in a over a decade. The Christmas before she died, partner tried to get me to speak to her on the phone...I refused. I still don't regret that. She was FIL's enabler, and two-faced. She'd lie to your face about stuff that FIL had said. As much as I dislike FIL (I don't hate him, because he's not worth the effort), he's always been honest about not liking me....MIL wasn't. She also shared - but pretended she didn't - many of his very distasteful views.

One of the great things as an adult is that you get to choose what family you have to deal with. You aren't stopping your husband from having a relationship with them...but it doesn't mean you HAVE to. A good relationship with inlaws is a bonus, not a necessity.

You forget that they are his children too. If he is adamant that he wants to take them to see his mother then what power does OP have to stop him?

In short, she doesn't. Were they to divorce he could still take them to see her on his contact time, and in this scenario might end up spending even more time with her than they otherwise would have. It's not so easy as to say her parenting must be terrible because she's 'letting' this event transpire. They have joint PR: if he wants his children to have contact with their grandmother without OP's consent then he can do that.

I'm not saying this is necessarily right, but it is where the land lies and also happens to be the legal position.

Of course, were the children of an age to decide for themselves and if they insisted that they don't want to visit, then that's a different matter. In the meantime, OP's limit has been reached. She is done, and very reasonably so. I'd let H see just how visiting without you, OP, works out for him. If upsetting his mother is too much like hard work, then appeasing her by visiting without you and having to take all the crap on his own account might prove likewise.

I'd just let it play out.

As a parent your dc's mental wellbeing is your responsibility too. Point out to dh he is being feckless with their mh. Your lack of respect for him should be loudly noted..

What is so hard is being the one that comes into the family and clearly sees the insanity but you look like the arsehole because it’s all just normal to them. It makes you feel insane!

@OriginalUsername2 I totally understand this dynamic. Calling out insanity or strange behaviour generally makes you the unpopular one. Which is completely unfair.

Why on earth you had 2 more kids with such a spineless man is beyond me. I would be telling him that he is awful and just as bad as he is allowing your kids to be treated so badly by her. You have no obligation to be nice to her or get over it. How can you even look at your husband? He thinks nothing of the disrespect you and your kids that HE allows.

No, they dont want their sons to be happy, they want control. Other people's feelings don't enter their heads.

Hold onto this feeling. I'm not sure your relationship with your husband will survive, but it sounds like that would be a good thing.

And stay strong about not going to visit your MIL.

Thank you for all the messages. I’ve read every single one and they’ve given me a lot to think about and I am really grateful for the input.

the issue with letting my dh take the older children really troubles me, if it was my choice they wouldn’t go, and I think this time I will give them a choice and make sure DH respects it. However, it is true that he has his own rights when it comes to our children. If we were to divorce I imagine he’d see a lot more of MIL as she’d be delighted. I can only do my best here and honestly, DH would stand up
for them now, he did it last time and it caused one of the wailing outbursts and denials when he pulled her up on something he’d heard with his own ears. This will sound like I’ve planted seeds, but I honestly haven’t - my older two have said before that they feel sorry that DH has MIL as his mum as they think she’s strange/ not nice.

the truth is, he doesn’t want to go at all. He wants me to go to make it more bearable for him. I think if he had a back bone he’d tell her he doesn’t want to visit her given her behaviour and ride that out. But there is no way.

This, totally this.

I've seen it in my own family of origin as well. My grandmother had 9 children, and once they were all adults, played them off against each other right up until she died at nearly 90. It was absolutely ridiculous. She never worked outside the home, and was a bored narcissistic control freak.

As soon as I was in my teens and realised what was going on, I begged my mother not to 'play' her silly games, to ignore the nonsense...but she just couldn't. My mother is also narcissistic and only her feelings matter.

Your DC grow up quickly and you only really have them on lease for 18 years before they start to become independent and are developing as young adults.

You don't want them to look back on their childhoods and think "I really hate Christmas/Easter etc" because they've had to spend it with unpleasant people who make their parents unhappy and cause arguments long after the event.

When they are away from home studying or working, you want them to long to visit you in the holidays. So you only have a limited number of holidays left where you are the parent and they are the pre adult child to show them that spending time with your family during the holidays are a good thing, so that they want to gravitate back to you when they are older and start their own families. This is YOUR time, not MILs. To show them that they have a choice who to spend time with. They have a choice not to obey other people's commands.

If you genuinely know things like this will happen - Don't let those holiday times, which should be celebratory gatherings be spoilt with episodes like this;
"DH would stand up for them now, he did it last time and it caused one of the wailing outbursts and denials when he pulled her up on something he’d heard with his own ears."

DH may have rights as you say, but he doesn't have the right to subject them to this kind of crap. Why should they have to watch that, any more than you should? And also it sounds as though standing up for them is a recent thing, which he's doing now, but didn't previously. Come to grandma's where she will insult you and subject you to wailing outbursts and denials and drama, but I will stand up for you now. It's hardly a great invite. (I'm not criticising you btw.. as these situations and the pressure on both of you must have been intense)

If DH wants to go, that's up to him and maybe when the full force of the awful behaviour is directed at him and there is no one else there to take the flak - he might start to realise that you have a point.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, she sounds completely unhinged, and your DH is hcomplicit.

A friend of mine has an MIL similar to yours, minus the suicide threats, and she is completely NC. 2 of their 3 kids haven't visited her with their dad since they were about 12, all older teens/ 20s now, and only one ever sees her, he's the golden boy grandson.

My friends life is so much better, her DH visits his mum. Don't go, don't make your kids go if they don't want to, she's not goingbto have a heart attack, and I hope your DH will agree to going to counselling, he needs to recover from his emotionally abusive childhood, and not sibject his own kids to it.

I feel for you. It's so difficult to be the one that shows your dh he has an unhealthy relationship with his mum. My mil is a narcissist. I didn't see it in the early years, but getting to know her and then seeing her behaviour towards our children meant that I also had to put boundaries in. My husband has slowly come to see how her behaviour and choices have impacted his upbringing. His youngest sibling sees the reality of their mum's behaviour but the middle sibling chooses not to.

I will not visit them at their house now as she feels too powerful there (she bullies my fil). She is not allowed to be alone with our children after saying she will discipline them as she sees fit. My husband meets his parents for dinner a few times a year, sends occasional photos of the children and we meet them once in an outside setting in the summer where it's neutral territory. The turning point for my dh was when he saw how she treated our dc.

Stand your ground. The threats of high blood pressure and heart worries, etc. are very manipulative and not something to indulge her with. Talk to your dh about the effect on your children and how your feelings matter. A friend of mine had an abusive parent and they said that when someone comes into the family and points out the obvious problem of abuse they are not welcome because they are challenging the status quo. By pointing out how damaging your mil's behaviour is, you are rocking the boat that has been carefully balanced by everyone bending to her demands. You are right to rock the boat. Be persistent, you and your dc will be so much happier for it. In time your dh will be too.

the truth is, he doesn’t want to go at all. He wants me to go to make it more bearable for him. I think if he had a back bone he’d tell her he doesn’t want to visit her given her behaviour and ride that out. But there is no way.

That is what id´s so awful imo.

He doesn't want to go as he doesn't enjoy it but expects everyone else to be miserable as well!

Why doesn't he just go no-contact with her like many other adult children of narc parents do?

Why are you allowing your DC to be exposed to this abusive woman???????

Wrong thread?