Let’s talk about how we can make changes in schools to improve them for everyone involved.

[SchoolsMustChange]

Having binge-read the WFH/attendance thread, I feel it important to have a positive discussion about changes schools can make that will improve things for everyone.

As a mother of autistic children, a couple of whom have school refused to the point of us being threatened with court and fines, and feeling totally unsupported by school, and ending up home educating because there felt like no other options, which also meant claiming more benefits to be able to do that.

I feel there are alternative options that would help schools become less chaotic, ease the stress on SN families (much of which comes from gaslighting and lack of support from within school) and improve outcomes for most children involved.

Lack of special school spaces is obviously an issue that must be addressed at some point, but for this thread let’s focus on mainstream schools, which seem to be really struggling right now.

At my youngest child’s school there was a high % of ND children, mainly because the local choice of schools is a draconian academy which manages out children with support needs, and this school, which is now riddled with attendance and behavioural issues. When I deregistered my son he was the 11th child in his year group to be removed, in a small school with under 60 per year group. My son’s attendance was nearing 50%.

What would have worked for him? Streaming lessons. Using technology already set up in the school during Covid lockdown. Allowing my son and others like him to login and register his attendance, and attend school and in a way that he could cope with. If he felt he genuinely had a choice to access education in this way he would have thrived. In days where stress levels were lower he could attend school and register as normal. If the day got too much he could come home and log in for afternoon lessons without it affecting his attendance and worrying schools, OFSTED and government. With this arrangement I know that his attendance, and that of loads like him, would be 100%. He wants to learn, but he can’t always do it in school.
Edited to add: this would also work for children who are ill who should be at home instead of spreading their germs to everyone!

I also think this plan could go further in dealing with increasing behavioural issues in the classroom, by being clear to parents that any issues (a lot which will be caused by unsupported SN) and their child will do lessons in a quiet room, streamed to a device with headphones (isolation room was often full of children who couldn’t cope in a loud classroom and who calmed down once there), and if the behaviour persists they can go home to learn there - if school is then not accessed they can be chased for their attendance, because a workable option is available.

Schools can then have a clearer line of acceptable behaviour with a real solution that’s not up for debate. At the moment lines are blurred and behaviour remains a big problem.

So rather than talking about the problem, can we have a discussion about potential solutions?

It’s depressing reading the frequent threads fighting teachers and/or children and/or parents.
Teachers are understandably not coping and are often blaming pupils and parents, children are not coping - as seen with rising rates of mental illness and poor attendance, parents are not coping because, especially those of us with SN children, we can see that they are not supported and we take the brunt of that once home. The system isn’t working for anyone.

So what can be done, because unless someone addresses the issues, instead of constantly pointing fingers at any other problem, this is only going to get worse for teachers, parents and pupils alike.

Any thoughts?

Is it ‘failing’ if the expectations of them are basically impossible?

This thing is, not everyone agrees that schools are the kind of place you're describing.

The drive for Elective Home Education is not driven by schools not being able to support the needs of the children. It's driven by the raising of attendance expectations through use of active support and then the pressure of fines. It means parents are facing their parenting being challenged. Rather than facing that challenge, they do the equivalent of running and hiding by removing their child.

Firmly do not believe this is decision making based on what's best for the child. It's about shame-avoidance for the parent.

The soul destroying thing is the extra funding has made no difference to the outcomes for SEN children at all. We may as well have never spent it.

I don’t think throwing yet more money at this is valid in any way. I think we need to acknowledge that we let teens call the shots now, and we’re so worried about dropping the ball with their mental health that it’s become an arena they are fully in control of and can use to their own ends.

Like I said, it wouldn’t have occurred to me that staying home and simply refusing to go to school was even an option. In the way it doesn’t occur to me that not paying tax is an option, or not paying a cab fare, or refusing to leave hospital when discharged. If numerous people start doing something it becomes an option, and emboldens others to do the same.

It’s the same for parents. They see other people demanding X or Y adjustment for their child, so it seems like a regular and reasonable thing to ask for.

I feel like it’s opened Pandora’s box and I’m not sure how to close it.

Free breakfast and lunch for all until end of sixth form college. I think it would improve behaviour as the cranky hungry students would be more ready to learn.

Get rid of outdated office style uniforms, smart shoes and ties. Shoes are uncomfortable and unsuitable for children who walk in. Allow trainers and polo shirts.

We allow trainers and polo shirts, sweatshirts when it's cool. Plenty of schools do.

Your points are excellent, @Wildflowers99

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean it to sound so dismissive.
It is the case though that many teachers do not understand and don’t want to make any allowances for our children, and in some cases almost going out of their way to make life difficult in order to teach them a lesson.

Someone asked upthread what would have worked for my dc. For my older, now adult, son, being largely ignored would have made his school life easier, and a couple of teachers managed this fine, and he progressed in their lessons. Another though took issue with his zoned out face, which apparently looked rude (he was 9), and she took him to task for every little thing despite fully knowing that she was making things worse for him, even though he masked at school and gave them no bother.
We had input from autism outreach, one autism worker in particular who was very clear that the worst part of her job was dealing with teachers who felt that making these allowances was terrible and the high number who refused to comply with the experts’ advice, much of which was very low effort.

In secondary we again (with help from AO) suggested an approach where he wasn’t in the limelight, had petty infarctions ignored (like using a pencil instead of a pen, for instance, or using a book to underline a word rather than a ruler), but there were a few teachers who really took against him (again no behavioural issues in school) and made his life hell.
This plus the behaviour towards me as his mother, the lies, the gaslighting, the attitude that I was the problem resulted in my own severe MH problems, and meant that ds managed 7 weeks in school followed by months of school refusal and violent meltdowns every day, and eventually, with threats of court and fines, I was so worn out I couldn’t do anything but deregister him.

I try to be very fair to all people involved - I understand that the system is shit for everyone involved, but the hate that we can read every day towards parents, and the lies that most of us are letting our children down is more than a bit wearing.

I do know it’s not helpful to dredge all of that up, but I want to explain why it’s easy, particularly when several posters clearly don’t understand, to not slip up occasionally.

Nope - it will just result in huge amounts of wasted food.

My kids’ school has an “old fashioned” uniform of blazer and tie and no-one bats an eyelid. It’s also one of the schools of choice for children with EHCPs. It has a good SEN unit, which is not mutually exclusive with the wearing of neckties.

The teacher training I went to was specifically on autism.

So in these increasingly common instances there should maybe be rules about who can be a voice of authority when it comes to school refusers and their families?

I would happily have worked with autism outreach - they knew what they were doing and they knew all the little tricks that helped autistic children who were able to be mainstream educated.

Unfortunately they were highly hindered by teachers who felt they understood children well enough and chose to do things in their own way, to the detriment of the child.

Autism outreach workers are so stretched nowadays that they can’t possibly put in the time that each child needs, and I’m sure this is part of the reason of the deterioration of behaviour in the classroom.

All this wasted time.
Simply put what we need is properly funded education and a wider choice.

Bring state funding in line with fees paid at independent schools and then stop this 1 size fits all comprehensive approach because it fails more kids than it supports.
We need: more specialised SEN schools, the creation of technical schools for 14+, bring back grammars and make approved online schools such as Minerva a viable option and accredit home schooling.

Give parents vouchers to spend where they choose. Absence and term time holiday rates are incredibly low in most independent schools because parents see the costs of educating their kids. With a voucher system parents would buy a set amount of days per year therefore each day has a monetary value.

If you talked to parents of the children who are school refusers this is a common theme.

If you talk to someone with children with few support needs then yes, you’re right.

It’s not ok to leave these children behind though, without even a crappy option to access something.

I’ve just written a post about my experiences that led to ds being deregistered.

This is a typical example of what parents face.

If you haven’t experienced it that’s great, but too many do. It’s not good enough, and I’m not even asking for millions of pounds worth of change, just the possibility of considering some different ways that allow our children to access something until the time comes where investigations are made and things can be changed to improve schools.

The huge amount of money going into SEND barely covers the huge increase in the numbers of EHCPs (which need funding) and the requests
for them. The increase in independent APs also guzzles funding (we’re taking upwards of £40k per child per year) We need to go back to root causes of school refusal, because once kids are out of mainstream it’s a hell of a job to get them back in. Resources provisions/SEN units within schools are a more flexible and cost effective strategy than building more SEN schools, especially for yp with ASD/ADHD who are cognitively able to access the curriculum, as well as more flexibility in terms of exams.

They tried that post-covid at my dc's school for those struggling to attend. In almost all cases it ended with the dc not attending any lessons and dropping out of school totally. Those it didn't were because the parents realised early on it wasn't working for their dc and insisted they went back to lessons.
The children just didn't do the lessons even those with parents who were very supportive.

I think the biggest thing that would help schools is:

1. Have achievement something the dc want and admire. So those who want to work aren't mocked for it, and hard work is celebrated.
2. Those who are struggling academically have other, often more practical or apprentice type, options that they do alongside maths/English/maybe another subject. The aim would be that they would at 16yo go off to apprenticeships. (they have one of those schemes at me dc's school where they spend a day a week at a technical college and it's very successful for targeted children)

Currently everyone is pushed down the academic route, and it's not for everyone.

Its a common theme (that schools are to blame) in non-attenders because the alternate is facing thr fact that the parent holds the responsibility/blame.

This cohort of oarents clearly don't want to hear or consider the alternative. So they will all, almost universally, blame something else.

The voice of these parents is not reliable to be truth or fact. They will be significantly and inheritance biased to avoid their own shame, guilt and feelings of blame.

“The soul destroying thing is the extra funding has made no difference to the outcomes for SEN children at all. We may as well have never spent it

Yes exactly. There are children in mainstream schools that cannot possibly be supported there, but not enough special school places.

Schools are then too stretched to support those with more manageable needs.

So in the absence of a huge cash injection (or despite it?) we are in a situation where thousands are basically out of education - what solution can be found with technology we have that can give them something of an education, even if it’s not perfect.

Which part are you talking about? A teacher should be the authority in their classroom, given they are the professional in the room most of the time. They will also be trying to work with the needs of every child in the room, and will be the only person who has knowledge of every child. Any good teacher will be able to make small adjustments for individual children.

Getting the child into school isn’t the responsibility of individual teachers, and each teacher developing bespoke approaches to the numerous children in each class is not a reasonable ask.

Guess you've never met any children genuinely suffering EBSA then?

Just assume you're wrong and the schools, in at least some cases, are to blame, what then?

It's a lazy cop out to lay all the blame on the parents and frequently on the children themselves when the school system is currently falling apart at the seams and traumatising a lot of people (children, families and teachers - look at any teachers thread on here about how they're flocking away from education in droves).

The education system is failing. That's not the fault of children like my son, or me, who is doing everything possible to help my child access school. Once he gets in through the gate, the small amount of extra support he needs to feel able to go to the classroom is not there. How's that my fault? For having a disabled kid who needs a little bit of extra support i guess?

With respect OP, we’ve never spent as much as we are right now on SEN, and there have never been so many special school places or ASD/SEMH wings of mainstream schools. Plus the 1-2-1s, SEN coordinators etc and even then the outcomes have not changed and parents insist the system is ‘worse than ever’.

There seems little point throwing £££ at some more speculative changes which in turn will probably be deemed as ‘unsuitable’ by most parents after they’ve been completed.

I honestly feel as PP said, the only thing parents will settle for is a completely bespoke, flexible education tailored around their child which continually changes to meet their preferences and can provide whatever they ask for at the shortest of notice.

In my town (50,000 people), when I was growing up there was 1 special school. There are now 3, and many of the schools have autism/SEN classrooms. I was looking at the OFSTED for a primary school close to a house we were considering buying, and the report said one of the classrooms is dedicated to children with an EHCP. This isn’t even a special school, just a bog standard primary. That’s 1 school covering 1 small area.

You say you’re not asking for millions of pounds of change but any change to the system however small would cost billions due to the sheer level of need now

Absolutely this.

I’m not sure where this £10b funding is actually going, but it’s either being entirely swallowed up and then some by the sheer number of children with additional needs now, or is certainly not finding its way into school budgets.

We used to have a TA per class and additional support staff for children with higher needs. Now, ALL of our TAs have been deployed to support high level SEND kids - mostly sharing their time 2 kids to 1 adult and having to dip in and out of mainstream classes with them because they’re such high-SEND needs. They need places in specific provision, but there are not any.

That then leaves classes of 30 with one teacher - and another 9-10 of those have a lower level of need, which the teacher needs to adapt to and support. Throw in some challenging behaviour.

It’s really incredibly hard, verging on impossible, to do the best for all children and that is currently the part of my job I find the most stressful. I know what all of these children need, but I cannot provide it without more adults.

If you live-streamed my lessons you wouldn’t hear half of it because of me moving around children, using the board, using the walls, sending children off/bringing them back. It’s very dynamic and not as chalk-and-talk as some of us remember from our own school days.

Attendance is a massive government agenda but all that really happens is the pressure is forced downwards onto heads.

Almost any issue you can find needs funding or change at a higher level to see any actual impact for our children.

Also to add - when a child is given an EHCP and funding, it usually covers about 30% of the cost of the support they require. Schools foot the bill for the rest, which is where all the classroom TAs are being used.

Once he gets in through the gate, the small amount of extra support he needs to feel able to go to the classroom is not there. How's that my fault? For having a disabled kid who needs a little bit of extra support i guess?

Is it the schools fault?

We're (parents and school staff) all caught between a rock and a hard place. Parents think they are "only" asking for a little bit of support. Multiply that by the amount of children who need it and suddenly you will see why the system isn't working.

What's the answer then?

We can't just wave a magic wand and make these children not have additional needs.

In previous generations these children wouldn't have accessed school at all. Is that your solution?