Let’s talk about how we can make changes in schools to improve them for everyone involved.

[SchoolsMustChange]

Having binge-read the WFH/attendance thread, I feel it important to have a positive discussion about changes schools can make that will improve things for everyone.

As a mother of autistic children, a couple of whom have school refused to the point of us being threatened with court and fines, and feeling totally unsupported by school, and ending up home educating because there felt like no other options, which also meant claiming more benefits to be able to do that.

I feel there are alternative options that would help schools become less chaotic, ease the stress on SN families (much of which comes from gaslighting and lack of support from within school) and improve outcomes for most children involved.

Lack of special school spaces is obviously an issue that must be addressed at some point, but for this thread let’s focus on mainstream schools, which seem to be really struggling right now.

At my youngest child’s school there was a high % of ND children, mainly because the local choice of schools is a draconian academy which manages out children with support needs, and this school, which is now riddled with attendance and behavioural issues. When I deregistered my son he was the 11th child in his year group to be removed, in a small school with under 60 per year group. My son’s attendance was nearing 50%.

What would have worked for him? Streaming lessons. Using technology already set up in the school during Covid lockdown. Allowing my son and others like him to login and register his attendance, and attend school and in a way that he could cope with. If he felt he genuinely had a choice to access education in this way he would have thrived. In days where stress levels were lower he could attend school and register as normal. If the day got too much he could come home and log in for afternoon lessons without it affecting his attendance and worrying schools, OFSTED and government. With this arrangement I know that his attendance, and that of loads like him, would be 100%. He wants to learn, but he can’t always do it in school.
Edited to add: this would also work for children who are ill who should be at home instead of spreading their germs to everyone!

I also think this plan could go further in dealing with increasing behavioural issues in the classroom, by being clear to parents that any issues (a lot which will be caused by unsupported SN) and their child will do lessons in a quiet room, streamed to a device with headphones (isolation room was often full of children who couldn’t cope in a loud classroom and who calmed down once there), and if the behaviour persists they can go home to learn there - if school is then not accessed they can be chased for their attendance, because a workable option is available.

Schools can then have a clearer line of acceptable behaviour with a real solution that’s not up for debate. At the moment lines are blurred and behaviour remains a big problem.

So rather than talking about the problem, can we have a discussion about potential solutions?

It’s depressing reading the frequent threads fighting teachers and/or children and/or parents.
Teachers are understandably not coping and are often blaming pupils and parents, children are not coping - as seen with rising rates of mental illness and poor attendance, parents are not coping because, especially those of us with SN children, we can see that they are not supported and we take the brunt of that once home. The system isn’t working for anyone.

So what can be done, because unless someone addresses the issues, instead of constantly pointing fingers at any other problem, this is only going to get worse for teachers, parents and pupils alike.

Any thoughts?

The other thing I’ve found since deregistering my youngest is that options that parents of reluctant schoolers to go down a more practical route at 14 (local colleges often had a variety of 14-16 courses) have all but gone.

For eg a few years ago my child would have had the choice of attending one of 3 local colleges to do certain GCSEs part time, and if he wanted could learn music, art, mechanics, things like that.
The only college anywhere near that offers anything like this is a 2 hour bus trip away.

It’s like schools cannot meet our children’s needs (I get it, sign of the times etc), but any other options are taken away, and no one will look for any innovative solutions.

The solution need not be perfect, it just needs to give our children the opportunity to not be traumatised every day, and for their parents to be gaslit and threatened for the pleasure of having children who do not fit into the highly flawed system.

Most school uniforms don't allow leggings anyway, and lanyards are compulsory in loads of schools. Thst doesn't get rid of problems. Girls aren't targeted because of what they wear. They are targeted because they are girls.

@newtonscradle or we could stop harassment instead of systematically endorsing it ?

This is true, not a popular view but it is reality. You are correct OP, schools aren't the best environment for many children, especially not the state they are in and this affects all children.

Adequate funding for staff, resources and buildings.

Increase availability of the other support systems outside of schools eg sure start, MH provision so that these functions and expectations can be removed from schools; it's not sustainable.

Increase specialist schools that encompass a broader range of children- many ND children will never thrive in mainstream even with staff support and adjustments, yet they also won't thrive in specialist school provision as is currently either (being able to access that is another issue in itself anyway).

I think all girls should wear the same uniform and one that can't be shortened or made skin tight. School should be for learning not a fashion parade.

You've got the option to do school from home already. There's plenty of YouTube channels out there if you were so inclined. Having attempted dual lessons during covid, it is a NIGHTMARE for teachers. I can't tell you the cognitive load and pressure to try and teach kids in the room and online simultaneously.

Schools are pressured to get attendance up. Until the government changes the metrics, schools won't change. We can't code children as attending from home.

What your children need is access to better MH support and a therapeutic plan to improve attendance. Mainstream schools haven't got the resource to provide that.

I honestly think more special schools and smaller class sizes in mainstream is the only way to reverse the current crumble of the system. Also allowing schools to be much more flexible with the curriculum and far less focused on exam results would take the pressure off both pupils and teachers. Unfortunately these are all things which can only be changed at government level for non-private schools.

Re-introducing early years centres again which can support families and sign-post would help children at a much earlier age age. That would also help.

No I understand, I really do.

Maybe I’m being naive though in thinking that pretty much every one of us owns a device capable of streaming (sorry to bang on about this!), so this could be a slightly bodged, imperfect, but maybe a sticking plaster solution that could cheaply help support these children better, without the cost of the suggestions (like smaller schools, better support) which aren’t going to happen.

In this day and age of technology why isn’t there an option like this, because we all know that education is on a fast downward spiral, and without billions that we don’t have spent on it there is going to be an enormous education catastrophe at some point.

If schools in developing worlds can overcome the difficulties they have, surely we, with fairly advanced technology at our fingertips most of the time, can do something?

It’s already happening. Lots of LAs and MATs are looking into AP as their schools are sinking with staff retention and overwhelming challenging needs.

The national curriculum is currently being reviewed and AI already being used to teach and mark. This will only keep being refined over the next few years with improved tech.

So it’s the social and emotional side of things that need to change. Schools should have cameras in the classroom to refute escalating parental complaints and entitlement. Parents need to be held responsible and accountable for their own parenting (or lack thereof). Non-SEN linked behaviour, lack of reading at home, lack of boundaries around phones and screens, life skills, obesity etc. All these things will need to be supported from outside agencies to give schools half a chance to get back to just plain old teaching and learning.

OP would your suggestions work?
They might work for your children but would others really work and listen if they were on headphones in a quiet room?
Why should teachers have to stream their lessons?
Teachers like to see their pupils they can get a lot from body language, if you think your child will learn better online there are online schools.

So who will be responsible if the child doesn’t listen with headphones on? You can bet some parents will march into the school insisting that all the accommodations made weren’t working and it was still the teacher’s fault for not following up or checking. Who would want to go into teaching then?

And what about able kids? What about them?

We would all love a bespoke education system for our kids. For us I think it would be better if all subjects were streamed. Our kids would thrive, and do in the science/maths lessons which are. But English, humanities, arts not so much. But it would be better for ours if they were all streamed. We could afford private school but we choose not to because our kids learn so much socially, economically, emotionally being in main stream comprehensive.

We teach our children (now teen boys) to be compassionate and patient with other students in their classes who are ND. They take it in their stride, they try to help, our youngster shaved his hair down in solidarity with his classmate going through chemo, our eldest has tried to explain “that you can’t throw chairs” to other struggling students.

And they do this because we have guided them to be understanding. It absolutely is about parenting. It’s about parenting and working with the teachers.

What you are expecting OP is just impossible.

Teenagers are cock sure, horny, angry, positive, funny, attitude heavy, wannabe cool and fit in, unsure of themselves, amazing and crazy individuals.

Ours don’t bat an eyelid about accepting others (they call it “the isms” to define autism, ADHD etc as a term of acceptance it’s not derogatory), they care if their classmates struggle even if they aren’t friends. Because we have raised them to be kind.

We have just over two years of secondary left, we are just going through GCSEs with eldest right now, it’s fucking intense and hard work, even with an able, bright teen we are picking up the bits school can’t do. But we don’t argue with the school, or teachers, demand extra lunchtime lessons or expect anything bespoke because it’s a main stream comprehensive.

The vast majority of students are not ND and they need educating as well.

There are no solutions. We all have to do the best for our own kids, if you can push your kids to understand they need to try and accommodate others then all the better.

But if you send your children to main stream it’s going to be full of other teenagers and expecting them to not be teenagers is imaginary. Do you teach your children that others are in the class to learn? Do you think about the other children, the ones who are able and not ND?

Teenagers are fucking arseholes, they are even ours and they are ok ones. Teachers have a responsibility to 30 of them each class. It should be equal but we, and they, all know it isn’t.

We all have to pick up the slack as parents that might be more for some than others.

By all means campaign, talk to your MP, raise funds for your children’s school to put the measures you desire in place. This is the only way it will happen in time for your children. I assume once your children are 16/18+ you won’t have any interest so you need to do things IRL now and locally. Waiting for the world to change around you will take far too long.

I am not trying to be mean, just honest, we have taught our teens to accommodate others, and they do. Ours children’s secondary could push them further, be more inspiring but we can’t have that unless we pay. So here we are right now.

I also think PPs are right that we need to address the cause of the anxiety and get children out of the house. It's not a proper solution to have children accessing lessons from home. Long term it would lead to more problems as children would stop attending because "I can dial in from home". See university lecture recordings...

“Monitoring software showing their screens and playing their audio showed many were more off task than they would be an actual lesson...”

But for loads of children being off task and being educated imperfectly is much better than the education they can currently access.

"school based trauma"

That needs unpicking.

I don't believe the answer here is how to allow more children to not access their full time education in school. I believe the answer comes from making schools brilliant places to be so that coming to school is the expectation for all.

Some of that will start from challenging the idea that because a child has had trauma, they are therefore Unable. Capital letter intended. The idea that a negative experience will be forever reflected in what happens next and they'll be limited and unable to do things as a result. This goes back to my point earlier about MH education and taught resilience.

In my view, "school based trauma" would be challenged as a concept. It's false to say that means a child cannot grow, change, learn to thrive despite their trauma. The right environment will support that. Making schools brilliant places to be.

There's also a question here about raising expectation for SEND / ND children. I don't feel comfortable with the notion that they just deserve a lesser deal (ie not going to school, bring isolated, not socialising, not being taught by trained subject teachers) because they have an additional need. In my view teaching these children at home, not with subject specialists, not having the teacher there to resolve misconceptions and ask questions to, without learning the social aspects of growing up that friendships and fallouts teach, without the basic preparation for adulthood like routines, rules, punctuality, the need to show up etc. Missing all this on the grounds of SEND needs means lowering the expectations for these children unnecessarily. They can do all these things and achieve highly. They need support and scaffolding to make these things happen,rather than permission to not have yo do this learning.

If schools in developing worlds can overcome the difficulties they have, surely we, with fairly advanced technology at our fingertips most of the time, can do something?

Schools in developing worlds don’t have children who consider education ‘traumatising’ though.

I would take a step back from the schools. Rather than ask how they can solve a problem, I would be asking how we can reduce the high level of demand for MH and SEN services in schools.

It wouldn’t solve all of it but there is a massive link between poor MH and excessive screen use as well as UPF diets, a lack of time outdoors, and free play. I think the building blocks of mental health and a productive childhood are crumbling.

I really think we should not start more formal learning, eg actually teaching reading, writing, maths, until age 6, as a lot of other countries do. That wouldn't cost vast sums to implement.

I know Reception is pretty informal, but we're still trying to get kids to do some pretty formal stuff and 4-5 yos are at such different stages, which are nothing to do with inherent ability. Some may barely be out of nappies and daytime naps if they are July/August born, others will be articulate, maybe reading already. I think by age 6 kids are at a bit more of an even keel, and too many able kids might have a crummy start to school because they were just not ready to read, write or understand numbers. We should start that stuff when more kids are ready for it; it clearly works elsewhere.

I would agree with all of this.

This is what we do, but it’s not great. Most online freebie video offering organisations don’t offer enough to educate a child, but give tasters in hope that you’ll access their £££ curriculums.

It also doesn’t allow for GCSEs to be taken. If my son takes GCSEs we will have to drive about 2 hours to our nearest centre - in his current state that would be too much for him to be able to do.

Perhaps improving access to local schools to sit GCSEs for HE families would help.

I don’t know, it just all feels hopeless.
I was educated in the 80s/90s and there was an atmosphere that anything can happen, we can do anything, and I feel like the 2000s have taken a downturn and we’re told we’re all going to fry and no one can do anything about it, so that’s what we expect. We’re all feeling downtrodden and powerless.

Schools have become dreadful places for too many children, and we as parents have a good understanding of that, but seemingly no one can do a thing about it. It’s a horrible situation, but I can’t bring myself to believe that there aren’t things that can be done.

Have you tried private school or colleges as an external candidate? Many will refuse because of the staffing required sadly.

I agree and I am not saying you parent like this OP, this is a very broad observation. But I see so many small children in my local area neglected by their parents - strapped into a buggy as vape smoke is blown all over them, staring at a tablet/phone and sucking on UPF snacks with very little engagement from people or with the world around them. I am really not surprised they end up needing additional support.

Ok if I was in charge of schools (and presumably had an unlimited amount of cash) I would ...

• Fund all school adjacent departments properly- social services, cahms, salt etc.
• increase places in specialist provision.
• start a campaign to get people to understand that inclusion doesn't just mean putting all the kids in together. It needs to be properly resourced so that all children can thrive.
• give schools a bigger budget.
• Stop looking in awe at the Shanghai method of teaching maths without first recognising the impact of cultural factors on the Shanghai method's success (might just be my authority doing that!).
• take any pressure off eyfs and y1. Children learn best through child-led play.
• make afternoon breaks mandatory.
• abolish all homework except reading.
• stop pushing all 'skills' in the foundation subjects further and further down the curriculum. Ks2 children don't need to know that shit. Primary is about fostering a love of learning and getting the basics right.
• recognise that purely synthetic phonics isn't best for all children.
• make it mandatory that anyone making decisions about educational policy should first spend time in a wide range of settings (primary/secondary/rural/urban/outstanding/failing) to get a really good understanding of the issues they're facing.

Powerless is how a lot of classroom teachers feel too.

We need to work out why school is so hard for children now, when it wasn't before. I think accountability and exam overhauls have put more pressure on staff, and then children. The curriculum is crammed full from reception.

I teach in a non selective state school. It's strange because we have migrants and refugees with little English who are thriving, children in care who do amazingly well, and many with all manner of physical and emotional difficulties who thrive.
However, what's happened in the last few years is an absolute explosion in anxiety. The number of children who need additional support, extra help or special provision is mind boggling.
Passes to leave the room early, toilet passes, time out passes - it used to be rare, now it's increasingly common.
I don't know what the solution is.

I've heard this argument before.

Except, the current training offers no experience from anyone at all. Just platitudes and research that very, very few parents and children agree with.

I'm not saying just one parent at random, but something planned and balanced. However, you'll be hard pushed to talk to, say, 3 parents of e.g. 3 able autistic children who will disagree on the basic things that would help their children.

I'm also thinking of meetings with teachers telling parents they know what their specific child struggles with more than said parent. As a teacher, you could do a lot worse than listening to that parent.