To think - how awful schools really are

[Ippimi]

I remember hating school when I went to school. But that was a long time ago now. I'd kind of forgotten about it.

I work for a training company that usually delivers training programmes to businesses. I usually teach adults. I'm not working in the UK at the moment. I'm working in a different country in Europe.

However we recently got asked to design a training programme for a local school. So for the last couple of weeks I've been going in and talking to the children in a school about a topic.

Going into the school- and looking at it as an adult - I just think it's so so awful. Why do we do this to children

The children are not allowed to move , they're not allowed to talk. The teacher yells at them to be quiet all the time.

I understand this is the school system everywhere. I remember that I hated school as a child and I felt trapped. But when I look at it from an adults eyes, it looks even worse.

when I look at it as an adult, it really seems like emotional abuse of children.

It also seems like such a waste of their young years.

They should be playing and having some fun.

They're not allowed to move or talk. And they get shouted at A lot. It just seems like they're getting indoctrinated to not think for themselves and to follow orders. The school system is just awful and needs to change in my opinion

It's strange. On a thread where I'm discussing children's rights.

You think people would be like "yes children's rights should be improved"

But no, some posters instantly jump to the adult's defense.

Does it not matter how the children feel?

Also I saw a thread on mumsnet not long ago, where a different poster was talking about how awful and draconian schools are. That children cant go to the bathroom when they want etc.

So I know that I'm not the only person that thinks this

So they're distracting the other child and those around them. The children need to listen to the teacher in order to learn. There will be times for discussion and offering their own opinions in class and they can talk freely at break and lunchtime.

I knew she was a teacher because she was so instantly defensive.

Do you understand how incredibly frustrating and upsetting it is for a child trying to listen and learn to have people trying to talk to them, or talking around them and distracting them? Its way more frustrating and upsetting to miss what the teacher has said because of someone whispering next to you, than it is to learn that if you need to say something you need to put your hand up. I don't know how you can possible think that kids being allowed to chat away when they feel like it is conducive to learning? Its so distracting to other kids. Can you see that?

I’m going to buck the trend and agree with you here. Schools are draconian and most aren’t a healthy place for children to learn. This isn’t the schools fault, or the teachers fault, and obviously the teachers can’t allow the children to talk when they are trying to teach 30 of them. But there shouldn’t be 30 children in a class to start with. I hated a lot of school, bar a few lessons where teachers treated the class with respect and were genuinely interested in what the pupils had to contribute. But without a shed ton of funding and a real revolution in terms of the structure and content of learning, this is what we are left with.

They should leave you with the class and see how you get on.

Children have the right to receive an education and for that to happen there are times they need to listen not talk.

If boundaries aren’t in place it’s very hard for children to have any rights. They need boundaries that’s not a bad thing.

Yes op you're totally right. We should let them talk when they want to, go off and play if they prefer that. It's not fair we have expectations of the poor little mites.

Then when they are old enough to start doing exams that matter not only will they not know the things they should have picked up age 5, but neither will the ones who wanted to learn, but we're prevented by the ones who didn't.
That's called levelling down and clearly the fairest thing for everyone.

I work in a very standard secondary school. I would not want my child to be in one without a strict behaviour policy. Some kids would be fine but a sizeable minority would make it impossible for others to learn.

They do leave me with the class.

As I've already written.

I wish people would read the thread before commenting

This is actually not true. We actively encourage SO much talk in the classroom. We have Kagan structures that encourage so much parter and group chat and debate. As well as talk tactics, discussion groups and a huge oracy focus at the moment. You can’t generalise all schools based on one you’ve recently been into.

People like you are the reason I don't go to the cinema anymore.

What are you worried will happen if you stop talking for a moment? Try it. Your brain might start working instead.

They're suboptimal environments for most children imo. Maybe they have to be like this in order to survive and so anarchy doesn't take over, but really the whole system needs a rethink. So many children not thriving.

What country are you in? I'd bet money it's not Scandinavia, Germany or the Netherlands.

This is partly a cultural issue.

Yes they are too draconian and too authoritive.

I agree that it shouldn't be one teacher with thirty children.

That is not good for anyone. It's not good for the teacher or the children.

Well it's pretty rude isn't it, if they are talking when the teacher is speaking?

Do you think the kids should just be permitted to carry on a casual conversation while the teacher is speaking and probably explaining something 😳😳

I don't recognise your description if schools at all. My kids love school and describe doing a lot of stuff like pair work where for at least a portion of the lesson they are working with a partner and thus talking?

I don't especially want them to spend the whole lesson chatting because um when would they do any bloody work. Generally when doing written work
kids need to concentrate?

OP interesting that this is your first and only post on mumsnet...

Yes the school system doesn't suit so many children.

Every time I go into the school, I see children crying.

What you call emotional abuse I'd call discipline. If children are to develop into productive members of society they have to learn to tow the line otherwise we end up with these smelly screeching weirdos who glue themselves to the roads and block traffic aka entitled brats who aren't used to being told No.

Ahh I see. I missed your update. Your original post reads as just one class and teacher.

Do you plan on retraining to become a teacher or getting more involved in the education sector? It seems like an area you’re really passionate about, perhaps your ideas could have an impact. My small contribution is volunteering to listen to the kids read at my children’s school. I think it provides some nice one-on-one time for them as they are in a class of 24.

Well they should have brought a pen (and spare) with them to school?

Generally the kids doing stuff like asking peers for pens, wanting to get up and move around the room are doing so to try and avoid getting on with the work!!

I’ve been teaching for 30 years and the schools I’ve worked in and visited aren’t like this. But the current Americanised, zero tolerance academy model is dreadful. I do think it’s abusive and goes hand in hand with unimaginative curricula and lack of pupil agency.

Lol. Do you not know how to name change?

It's not my first and only post on mumsnet. I've been on here for a long time

I just did a name change for a new thread.

At what age do you believe they should stop playing and start becoming economically active?

Well usually that's because the students need to listen to instructions the teacher is trying to give. Our teachers very rarely shout, but students do get removed from class if they constantly interrupted the teacher. Which to be fair is not a bad thing, students in school today do stuff we never would have dreamed of when I was at school.

Constantly talking over the teacher, getting up and wondering around the classroom, sitting on desks, eating during lessons etc.