To think - how awful schools really are

[Ippimi]

I remember hating school when I went to school. But that was a long time ago now. I'd kind of forgotten about it.

I work for a training company that usually delivers training programmes to businesses. I usually teach adults. I'm not working in the UK at the moment. I'm working in a different country in Europe.

However we recently got asked to design a training programme for a local school. So for the last couple of weeks I've been going in and talking to the children in a school about a topic.

Going into the school- and looking at it as an adult - I just think it's so so awful. Why do we do this to children

The children are not allowed to move , they're not allowed to talk. The teacher yells at them to be quiet all the time.

I understand this is the school system everywhere. I remember that I hated school as a child and I felt trapped. But when I look at it from an adults eyes, it looks even worse.

when I look at it as an adult, it really seems like emotional abuse of children.

It also seems like such a waste of their young years.

They should be playing and having some fun.

They're not allowed to move or talk. And they get shouted at A lot. It just seems like they're getting indoctrinated to not think for themselves and to follow orders. The school system is just awful and needs to change in my opinion

I can only go by the kids coming in happy and leaving happy to my class every day and the parents telling me how much their child loves school and me as their teacher. I've been teaching for 15 years and it's been a mostly positive experience for the kids and the adults. We are like a family and a team. My own two children love school too, they go to a different school that I teach in. Primary is obviously different. We have lots of play based learning and discussion time. My class are 5&6 so it's rare where I get 5 whole minutes in which they are all quiet at once. 😂 I'm not a strict teacher at all but I do have to regularly tell them to be quiet when I'm teaching. Do you have kids yourself? Do they hate school?

I will say I'm not in france .

You think france just because one poster randomly suggested that.

OP, I gave an example of a really effective triad between child, families and school. I’m still curious what your thoughts are about a solution, as you’ve extensively addressed the problem. What would your ideas for change look like if implemented? I don’t subscribe to the idea that ‘one person cannot make a change’. I’ve seen Mums come together and achieve amazing things within their children’s schools.

I believe we all have a social responsibility for children, especially those who are not being treated correctly (as you expressed in your, OP). It’s sounds like your experiences in this school have had an impact on you but you’re not really sure how to do anything about it?

Anyway I think I've been on this thread long enough, and I've said all I wanted to say. I have to go and do some shopping.

Have a good evening

Well,.it was as good a guess as any!

I have asked you several times if you reported it and you didn't answer. Who did you report it to? What was the outcome?

He/she/they has left the thread to go shopping.

Cartevitale
In the UK as a visitor to a school she would report it to the LA safeguarding authorities, to her employer and the safeguarding lead for the trust the school is in. I highly doubt she has done anything of the sort probably because she is not being very honest.

As a former teacher, that's terrible practice. Personally , I'd ask to speak to the headteacher and repeat some of that language. No headteacher I've met would accept a teacher yelling rudely like that. However, I would expect all children to be listening when I was teaching. Lessons are often about 55 minutes, and you want to set them up to be successful in their independent work, so you need the children to focus while you're teaching. The children should have their equipment and there shouldn't be any need for them to talk to the person next to them during the lesson, unless it's group work, paired work, etc. etc. it's never that long till break/lunch etc. and so they can wait to have all the conversations they want then! It's not draconian to establish a calm learning environment where children can learn in peace. (Although, the means of establishing silence in the school you're discussing is not the right way to do it!)

Don't know where you are, or the age of the children, but that is not what it is like in primary schools in this country. Our headteacher would not tolerate adults shouting at the children.

How should schools work then? Rather than just criticising let us know what you would expect to see of both teachers and students and how you would correct this if either weren’t meeting expectations.

A lot of the people having a "horrible time in school" are teachers trying to educate young folk who won't shut up and listen! With parents who don't support the school's attempts to enforce discipline and just think it's unnecessary for their DC to follow any rules.

What do you honestly think would happen in a cinema if everyone wanted to talk quietly to the person beside them? How do you feel if people consistently to their neighbours when you're delivering a talk?

So @Ippimi what do you suggest teachers do then ?
they have to abide by the heads, local authority, ofsted, and everyone else who thinks they know how to teach because they went to school

Dm was a teacher and also did observations. She said there is an unsaid contract, we expect dc to sit still and behave but it's also on the teacher to make the lesson as engaging and interactive as possible.

That's not an "unsaid contract". That's part of the agreed Teaching Standards.

Don't they just 😂!
Also, weirdly, they think that things haven't changed in the last 40 years or so!

@MagdaLenor why are so many teachers unbelievably boring, never switch things up, speak in a monotone voice and so on

How many teachers have you seen teach to come to this conclusion? I am regularly in classrooms of other teachers and the only monotone teacher I have seen was an ECT student that was already receiving extra support. I also see variety between rooms even when the same topic was being covered.

Dm said, far far too many.

How many observations have you done? I've done literally thousands.

At magda maybe they are putting on a show? Many are great but if course too many are bloody boring, why is that a surprise?

OP please just answer this one question. What would you do if all the children were talking at once, to their friends, and began to raise their voices as they couldn’t hear due to background chatter, so that no one could hear you speak, and then a group of kids decided to get up and dance on the desks because it was fun. What would you actually do?

Probably call the teacher back in to restore order…

Why does OP have to answer that? I have taught in lots of schools, including PRUs and SEMH schools, I have never once seen or heard of groups of children getting up and dancing on the tables. Even a very experienced teacher would struggle to deal with that extreme example and OP is not a teacher, but a visiting speaker.

This thread is getting seriously weird.

i went to one main secondary and a year part studying with another secondary, and yes both cases it was as you describe op, basically it could be debated we are being trained to be worker drones rather than leaders