To think - how awful schools really are

[Ippimi]

I remember hating school when I went to school. But that was a long time ago now. I'd kind of forgotten about it.

I work for a training company that usually delivers training programmes to businesses. I usually teach adults. I'm not working in the UK at the moment. I'm working in a different country in Europe.

However we recently got asked to design a training programme for a local school. So for the last couple of weeks I've been going in and talking to the children in a school about a topic.

Going into the school- and looking at it as an adult - I just think it's so so awful. Why do we do this to children

The children are not allowed to move , they're not allowed to talk. The teacher yells at them to be quiet all the time.

I understand this is the school system everywhere. I remember that I hated school as a child and I felt trapped. But when I look at it from an adults eyes, it looks even worse.

when I look at it as an adult, it really seems like emotional abuse of children.

It also seems like such a waste of their young years.

They should be playing and having some fun.

They're not allowed to move or talk. And they get shouted at A lot. It just seems like they're getting indoctrinated to not think for themselves and to follow orders. The school system is just awful and needs to change in my opinion

Yes I understand safeguarding.

But as I said, it's not my choice that the teachers leave the room.

They choose to leave the room . I'd be happy for them to stay!

Its hard to take you seriously when you are in a different country, with different rules complaining about the rights of children in a different country to those in your training class because it reminds you of being in school.

Primary school teachers are saying that it doesn't happen here.

I think you really need to try and teach a lesson to 30 kids before you comment on how kids need to behave in lessons. In actual fact if you sat through the whole lesson you'd see that they do have time to chat to others - discussions are built into lessons all the time. However kids just having their own conversations whilst the teacher is explaining something is a disaster- they wont know what to do. There is no way they can listen and chat at the same time. Also 30 different conversations would be a nightmare! I hated school too but as an adult who now works in a school (second career) I can see that lots of the discipline is necessary..not just to learning but also to growing up in order to be a responsible member of society who can hold down a job and not always put themselves first. Kids today are so lacking in boundaries and actually I think it's having a disastrous affect on their resilience. I really worry for these kids as adults. There seems to be a school of thought that nobody should be uncomfortable these days - how is this helpful? Life is full of unforseen challenges, disappointments and difficulties - ranging from not getting the job or house you want to the utter devastation of grief or serious illness. How can we expect kids to navigate these issues as adults if they don't start learning resilience as kids and yes, this does go hand in hand with following rules or being told to be quiet.

The examples you describe sound pretty extreme. I went to a pretty rubbish comp in the early 2000's. I don't remember shouting being a regular occurrence and no teacher ever shouted at me to 'shut my mouth'.

I was (rightly) told not to disturb my classmates by talking. But that's essential really, how is anyone meant to learn if everyone is having their own conversations? (I'd be super annoyed if I was sat near people whispering in the cinema tbh!).

I'd be really disappointed if my children were shouted at in the way you describe. What country are you in now OP?

It's hard to take me seriously when I'm in a different country?

Eh what?

You're in a different country to me!

Mumsnet is worldwide.

I never understand why some uk posters seem to think that everyone on here is from the UK.

You don't get that on other websites. There are people living all over the world , who use mumsnet.

So your not in a different country to the UK complaining about the UK education system?

Because that is how is comes across.

They're a lot more strict about safeguarding in schools in the UK now. A lot of new safeguarding practices were introduced in the 2000's, which is good.

I remember they introduced a lot of better school safeguarding practices in the UK after the very sad case of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, who were killed by a school caretaker. That happened in 2002. Before that, they didn't even do background checks properly on people that worked in schools in the UK.

When I was at school, (pre 2002) they didn't care really if a teacher was in the room or not, when someone came in.

No I'm not complaining about the UK education system. I'm complaining about the school system in general.

Children are in school to learn and listen not chat amongst themselves. I actually think children these days are more unruly and rude due to schools being too lax.

Quite. So now they do. I'm not sure what the safeguarding is where you are, if you're left alone with various primary school classes to train them. Or how you think the teachers' behaviour there is in any way the same as that of UK teachers.

Right. Don't you realise that it's very different in different countries, even in Europe? You're also complaining about education in the UK.

It did though.

DBS checks didn’t start until 2012.
It was 2002 before the education act England and Wales required the education authorities to safeguard dc.

If children are talking then teachers can't teach, that's the long and the short of it.
It's very rude to talk when someone else is talking at the front of a classroom or in a work meeting as well to be honest.
I asked my DS who is home from uni for reading week if people talk in lectures and he said no, I asked what does the lecturer say if people do talk and he said sometimes if the students are chatting when he comes in he (or she) will say 'settle down now' or 'be quiet now' and then they are (as they are 19/20 year olds there to learn).
Yes, there is a lot wrong with the current education system, but this isn't one of the issues. There was plenty of pair work when you can talk 'quietly' in class, you could tak in art, drama, PE, but not when the teacher is talking. It was the same when I was at school.

Yeah i was in school pre 2002 in the UK, and we were definitelty left alone with all kinds of guest speakers!

It's good that it's improved in the UK these days.

So, I think we have now understood from the thread that the OP's comments pertain to the school system - or perhaps just a handful of schools - in an unnamed country that we know not to be the UK.

Some aspects of her experience in these unnamed schools in the unnamed country appear to have reminded her of some negative experiences that she had in her own substandard schooling in the UK many years ago. We have established that she has no current knowledge or experience of schools in the UK to speak of.

Anyway, from that limited experience of her own school in the UK many years ago, a handful of unnamed schools in an unnamed country and a few threads that she has read on MN over the years, the OP has deduced that all schools in all parts of the world are shit; that teachers don't respect the rights of children; and that all schools are like jails.

I imagine that the one thing that we can all probably agree on is that the OP's own school clearly did fail her as it doesn't seem to have taught her how to think very clearly at all.

I know.
I'm saying that primary school teachers on here are saying that the shouting and intemperate language is not part of their pedagogical experience here in the UK. Therefore challenging the OP.
However, it turns out she's not in the UK, so making generalisations and accusations which are not supported by evidence about education in this country.

I was at primary in the 1980s. We were not left on our own with visitors.

What are you even on about

"It turns out she's not in the uk".

It says in my opening post that I'm not in the UK.

Do you think that everyone in the whole world lives in the UK?

Good for you.

I was.

This sums it up perfectly 👌

But there is no "in general" about different countries educational systems. the UK system has changed a huge amount in the last 15 yrs, let alone what it looks like compared to pre 2000.

And you can't even really compare the UK system because its different across the countries that make up the UK.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves thank you!
You've summarised it very well 👍! 😂

Spot the teacher!

So defensive and aggressive

Some very valid points in their post!