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An unholy trinity or just a seedy threesome: Trump, Musk and Putin? - Trump thread #138

1000 replies

Spandauer · 15/02/2025 20:11

With a side order of Vance, Zuckerberg and Netanyahu.*
(*Other flavours are available)

Whoever is winning at the moment will always seem to be invincible.
George Orwell

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5258416-trumpmusk-folie-a-deux-trump-thread-137

OP posts:
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59
countrygirl99 · 22/02/2025 14:55

I'm surprised Musk is allowing that. Or maybe it's a shot across his bows and the first sign of a falling out🤞

PerkingFaintly · 22/02/2025 14:57

BustingBaoBun · 22/02/2025 14:46

The Trumper is now shutting down all 8,000 EV charging points at federal buildings.
Why?
They're set up, so it's just pathetic and means both government owned and privately owned EVs are unable to be charged starting next week. I hope this affects Tesla

Wut?

Disconnection of existing charging ports supposedly to be officially announced next week.

So 7 Feb:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/07/trump-electric-vehicle-charging-station-program

21 Feb:
https://electrek.co/2025/02/21/trump-to-shut-down-all-8000-ev-charging-ports-at-federal-govt-buildings/

Well. That will please Musk... Not.

CaveMum · 22/02/2025 15:00

Apparently Trump and Musk did an interview with Hannity earlier this week which was utterly bizarre. Basically an hour of the two of them saying “you’re the best”, “no you’re the best”.

They mentioned it on Pod Save America and said it was strange that it hadn’t made any news, but that it was really dull and they didn’t say anything interesting at all.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

BustingBaoBun · 22/02/2025 15:01

I would love to think it's the start of a falling out but I think it's fat Trumpy disbanding anything connected to the green energy movement. It's just malicious.

AcrossthePond55 · 22/02/2025 16:28

RafaistheKingofClay · 22/02/2025 05:39

He seems to have fired a number of the Joint Chiefs. Including the Chair. That can’t be leading to anything good.

He needs to be sure that those in charge of the military place their first loyalty to him, not to the Constitution or to the protection of 'We The People'. It is not beyond reality to think of him using the US military to 'subdue unruly citizens' or carry out 'actions' against his perceived enemies.

Does make me wonder if he's getting nervous with all the protesting going on. And lately a very few of them are, not exactly inciting violence, but certainly saying that perhaps it's time to be 'loud enough' to risk arrest. They're saying this along the lines of the '60s Civil Rights protests & resulting arrests, not along the lines of the Jan 6 insurrection.

SerendipityJane · 22/02/2025 16:31

AcrossthePond55 · 22/02/2025 16:28

He needs to be sure that those in charge of the military place their first loyalty to him, not to the Constitution or to the protection of 'We The People'. It is not beyond reality to think of him using the US military to 'subdue unruly citizens' or carry out 'actions' against his perceived enemies.

Does make me wonder if he's getting nervous with all the protesting going on. And lately a very few of them are, not exactly inciting violence, but certainly saying that perhaps it's time to be 'loud enough' to risk arrest. They're saying this along the lines of the '60s Civil Rights protests & resulting arrests, not along the lines of the Jan 6 insurrection.

Speaking of Jan 6th ... anyone else reading that a few of those pardoned by Trump are now committing fresh crimes in the belief that Trumps pardon was a carte blanche ?

AcrossthePond55 · 22/02/2025 16:31

Igotjelly · 21/02/2025 20:04

I may have said before so apologies if I have but I have a friend who is an epidemiologist in New York and they’re seriously worried about how much healthcare and science will be set back because of the research etc that’s being wholesale deleted for containing “prohibited” phrases.

I'm hoping that your friend and others like her are busily backing up their work on separate hard drives and then hiding those drives where they won't be found. Probably technically illegal, but definitely for the good of humanity. And in this case the ends definitely justify the means.

AcrossthePond55 · 22/02/2025 16:39

SerendipityJane · 22/02/2025 16:31

Speaking of Jan 6th ... anyone else reading that a few of those pardoned by Trump are now committing fresh crimes in the belief that Trumps pardon was a carte blanche ?

I hadn't heard about 'future crimes'. But any number of them are saying that the pardon covers any crime they've ever committed, including some who have convictions for CSA or other crimes involving sexual assault. In fact, I believe some sort of lawsuit has been filed over it.

AcrossthePond55 · 22/02/2025 16:47

Rachel has recently covered all the 'walk back' that have happened as a result of Musk's wholesale shutting down of agencies and willy nilly firings. She had quite a list of those where they've said "Oh, we didn't mean XXX agency/programme" and rescinded their order.

I think it's all inline with Silicone Valley Bros philosophy of "Move Fast and Break Things". It's an interesting read.

“Move fast and break things” means approaching work and innovation with an emphasis on speed and experimentation. This motto insists it's more worthwhile to make mistakes and disrupt technologies along the way than to play it safe at a slow and steady pace."

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/move-fast-and-break-things#Esx1P6sYj4s4iKdrNpTvW

Unfortunately it doesn't work quite as well with human institutions (like governments) as it does with software.

AcrossthePond55 · 22/02/2025 17:06

I have to say I was surprised they had the backbone. Hopefully it's a good sign for the future.

I think the next one for them is birthright citizenship. I'm pretty sure I heard it's been 'fast tracked' to SCOTUS level. That's going to be a real test since it's spelled out in the Constitution. I guess what it hangs on is the interpretation of the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"* with the Administration indicating that an 'illegal' or non permanent resident is not subject to the 'jurisdiction' of the US', therefore their child isn't either and thus is not a US citizen.

The whole phrase in the Constitution is "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States". There are already certain exemptions for children born here whose parents have diplomatic immunity as they are 'subject to the jurisdiction' of their home countries and pretty much exempt from US law.

pentangles · 22/02/2025 17:38

BustingBaoBun · 22/02/2025 14:46

The Trumper is now shutting down all 8,000 EV charging points at federal buildings.
Why?
They're set up, so it's just pathetic and means both government owned and privately owned EVs are unable to be charged starting next week. I hope this affects Tesla

I am at a point now, where if I just stand back a bit and look at it without emotion, I feel as though everything Trump does is a reaction against 'having to play fair'.

It is as if he resents having lived in a world where you were encouraged to behave, act decently and learn tolerance.

His Big King moment is being able to throw all of the toys out of the pram and make childish faces at people who once told him he wasn't allowed to be inappropriate or greedy.
It looks like a wholesale 'revenge' on people he used to hate having to share with, ie, law makers, progressives, diversity champions and women. Psychologically I think that he is deeply afraid of (and/or inferior to) women and intellectualism.

That said, I think he is a distraction from something much, much darker. I am far more wary of Thiel, Vance and Musk. I think they would be happy to retire Trump or even bump him off to further their state coup.

SerendipityJane · 22/02/2025 17:42

AcrossthePond55 · 22/02/2025 17:06

I have to say I was surprised they had the backbone. Hopefully it's a good sign for the future.

I think the next one for them is birthright citizenship. I'm pretty sure I heard it's been 'fast tracked' to SCOTUS level. That's going to be a real test since it's spelled out in the Constitution. I guess what it hangs on is the interpretation of the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"* with the Administration indicating that an 'illegal' or non permanent resident is not subject to the 'jurisdiction' of the US', therefore their child isn't either and thus is not a US citizen.

The whole phrase in the Constitution is "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States". There are already certain exemptions for children born here whose parents have diplomatic immunity as they are 'subject to the jurisdiction' of their home countries and pretty much exempt from US law.

Well Trump appears to be telling government agencies to ignore the courts.

If they obey Trump then the constitution is merely rather special toilet tissue.

pentangles · 22/02/2025 17:44

SerendipityJane · 22/02/2025 16:31

Speaking of Jan 6th ... anyone else reading that a few of those pardoned by Trump are now committing fresh crimes in the belief that Trumps pardon was a carte blanche ?

Yes, I saw something linked to an instagram video of one of these guys being arrested again, already.
Unfortunately the comments below it were dire.

BlackeyedSusan · 22/02/2025 18:00

Lalgarh · 21/02/2025 14:13

But why was ian wearing sunglasses indoors 🤔

bsky.app/profile/whstancil.bsky.social/post/3linu357inc2h

Who needs ketamine when you're autistic...sounds like it induces the equivalent of an autistic sensory overload! (Completely misses point, suspect it's on a different planet entirely)

At least the alleviating suggestions are similar to alleviating a sensory overload.

Elon chain saw was on R4 yesterday several hours after appearing on this thread...

Anyway, <hoiks thread back onto rails> back to catching up.

RafaistheKingofClay · 22/02/2025 18:21

SerendipityJane · 22/02/2025 16:31

Speaking of Jan 6th ... anyone else reading that a few of those pardoned by Trump are now committing fresh crimes in the belief that Trumps pardon was a carte blanche ?

Yes. I saw something a week or so ago about a few people being arrested. Not sure if it’s just that the pardon has given them confidence or whether there’s an element of people who turn up armed to an insurrection and injure police officers are also the sort of people who have a tendency to get arrested a lot too.

Not unlike when the July rioters here got to court and it turned out that loads of them had very very long strings of previous convictions.

Dariendreamer · 22/02/2025 19:19

AcrossthePond55 · 22/02/2025 17:06

I have to say I was surprised they had the backbone. Hopefully it's a good sign for the future.

I think the next one for them is birthright citizenship. I'm pretty sure I heard it's been 'fast tracked' to SCOTUS level. That's going to be a real test since it's spelled out in the Constitution. I guess what it hangs on is the interpretation of the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"* with the Administration indicating that an 'illegal' or non permanent resident is not subject to the 'jurisdiction' of the US', therefore their child isn't either and thus is not a US citizen.

The whole phrase in the Constitution is "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States". There are already certain exemptions for children born here whose parents have diplomatic immunity as they are 'subject to the jurisdiction' of their home countries and pretty much exempt from US law.

@AcrossthePond55

Im trying (not necessarily succeeding) to follow the birthright citizenship as this is one of the issues that I can look at academically rather than emotionally.

IF the argument is that non-resident legal aliens are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, what would stop non-resident legal aliens from claiming the equivalent of “diplomatic immunity” for day to day things like car accidents, speeding fines etc?

Either you fall under the jurisdiction for all things or you don’t?

The other thing that interests me if it’s not birthright citizenship, how will citizenship be determined? It has to be citizenship via descent or naturalisation.

Currently you may only claim citizenship by descent if you are under 18.

Talkinpeace · 22/02/2025 19:34

Birthright - the key point there is that it was written to stop the former slavers disenfranchising those who had no proof of entry to the USA (slaves)

illegals who have children in the USA - with no proof of how the kid came to be born where they were - exactly fit that pattern,

several SCOTUS folks are originalists - they should find it impossible to make that split

I at least was born to two US citizens whose families had been in the US for centuries.
Boris Johnson's family were short term visitors !!

Lalgarh · 22/02/2025 20:25

I think an article featuring this might have already been posted ..

Not sure if the audience are non Trumpist or ex MAGA. The derision is stunning

https://youtube.com/shorts/B5pW6e1FoDs?si=2kcC3DfiogvLlUoS

AcrossthePond55 · 22/02/2025 20:42

Dariendreamer · 22/02/2025 19:19

@AcrossthePond55

Im trying (not necessarily succeeding) to follow the birthright citizenship as this is one of the issues that I can look at academically rather than emotionally.

IF the argument is that non-resident legal aliens are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, what would stop non-resident legal aliens from claiming the equivalent of “diplomatic immunity” for day to day things like car accidents, speeding fines etc?

Either you fall under the jurisdiction for all things or you don’t?

The other thing that interests me if it’s not birthright citizenship, how will citizenship be determined? It has to be citizenship via descent or naturalisation.

Currently you may only claim citizenship by descent if you are under 18.

Currently you may only claim citizenship by descent if you are under 18

An adult can claim 'derivative citizenship' through a US citizen parent. It's more complicated than birthright or descent and includes a length of US residency requirement for the parent. It's also more complicated if the US citizen is the father AND the parents never married.

"Applicants 18 years old and over, born outside the United States, may claim U.S. citizenship from a parent who at the time of the applicant’s birth was a United States citizen. Once the citizenship claim is established, the applicant qualifies for a first-time U.S. passport."

IF the argument is that non-resident legal aliens are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, what would stop non-resident legal aliens from claiming the equivalent of “diplomatic immunity” for day to day things like car accidents, speeding fines etc?

Exactly. They're going to have to twist themselves into knots with pointing to one small part of the law while still ignoring the ramifications or negating the effects of their specific interpretation. "No, they aren't subject to the jurisdiction. Unless they violate the law (or we otherwise want them to be)". Contradictory, but what else is new?

The 'new interpretation' is that you are a 'natural born citizen' IF your parent(s) are US citizens (birth or naturalized) regardless of your place of birth OR your parent(s) are Lawful Permanent Residents (ie 'green card') AND you are born in the US. Children born to people who are here on temporary visas (visitor, work, etc) or here illegally are not. From what I can tell, that's more along the lines of what most European countries do. I wasn't aware that birthright citizenship was so "Americas-centric", but it seems to be if you look at a map of who does what.

Talkinpeace · 22/02/2025 21:05

@AcrossthePond55
My kids might have been eligible for US passports, but that would have involved my US resident parent pulling his finger out.
So they do not have it.

AcrossthePond55 · 22/02/2025 22:02

Talkinpeace · 22/02/2025 21:05

@AcrossthePond55
My kids might have been eligible for US passports, but that would have involved my US resident parent pulling his finger out.
So they do not have it.

For shits and giggles, I once looked into something similar ages ago for UK citizenship, but because my dad never established his through his parents that 'broke' my UK connection' as it were.

It's the same here. You can derive citizenship through a parent, but not a grandparent.

TopPocketFind · 22/02/2025 23:10

https://bsky.app/profile/chrisgeidner.bsky.social/post/3lisfqzy42s2w

As Elon Musk said on X would be happening, I can now report that all federal employees are receiving an email directing them to provide “approx. 5 bullets of what you accomplished last week.”

It directs them not to send any classified information and is due by 11:59p Monday.

Unlike Musk’s X post, the email does not say that “[f]ailure to respond will be taken as a resignation.”

cakeorwine · 23/02/2025 07:57

TopPocketFind · 22/02/2025 23:10

https://bsky.app/profile/chrisgeidner.bsky.social/post/3lisfqzy42s2w

As Elon Musk said on X would be happening, I can now report that all federal employees are receiving an email directing them to provide “approx. 5 bullets of what you accomplished last week.”

It directs them not to send any classified information and is due by 11:59p Monday.

Unlike Musk’s X post, the email does not say that “[f]ailure to respond will be taken as a resignation.”

What about if you are on holiday?
Off sick?

Don't work Mondays

If people are forced to resign, there could be many unintended consequences

Branster · 23/02/2025 08:17

@cakeorwine I guess in those circumstances those people didn't achieve enough and, if the aim is to release employees who don't achieve enough, then then'd be sacked. I've known it done in one particular instance at a (large) independent company. Big boss on unannounced visit, walks around all the desks, those missing from their desks regardless of reason were let go on the spot. Shocking.

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