Page 24 | Lucy Letby press conference

Viviennemary · 2025-02-04T10:27:10+00:00

There is a press conference going on now trying to get Lucy Letby's conviction overturned. From what I read the guilty verdict was sound. All those ill babies dying when she was alone with them. Just a coincidence? Already been refused an appeal.

Orangesandlemons77 · 04/02/2025 21:49

Househunter2025 · 04/02/2025 21:35

Most likely these babies died as a result of the shoddy, crappy NHS, just like so many others have in hospitals around the country. When staff are overworked and undertrained then things will go wrong, people will often start to blame each other rather than accept they made a mistake because they were under duress.

And I work in science and there are plenty of people here with PhDs who make these same kinds of wrong inferences based on stats. It's really easy to trip up on these things - the human brain is designed that way.

It ought to be mandatory that there's some actual evidence in order to convict someone

Shoo Lee one of the experts today said the hospital would have been shut down where he lives (Canada)

Sevenpintsamonth · 04/02/2025 21:56

Quitelikeit · 04/02/2025 17:53

People commenting here have no idea of the course of events on that ward and the efforts made by her seniors to get her off the ward

At this point they didn’t know she was a serial killer they just wanted her off the ward!

The safeguarding team refused to do this and when she went back well then you have guessed it!

There are various things to take into account - repeated actions that all add up to something uncouth

And while you might think that doesn’t make her guilty - strange coincidences, deaths, collapses, insulin, searching families on Xmas day on FB (child had passed months before), her own testimony where she admitted insulin was a cause of death, getting excited when there was a resus required, her handover notes, insisting on being placed in nursery A, the collapses that happened when she was on her previous placement. She totally denied Dr Jayrams event, she chose to testify herself, there was apparently no issues with her competence noted. And heaps of other stuff!

She did seem to be stockpiling notes and googling / investigating families who suffered losses. I wonder was she aware of negligence and was taking it upon herself rather unwisely to get proof of that? Proof which was then used against her .

FlowerUser · 04/02/2025 22:04

ColourBlueColourPurple · 04/02/2025 21:36

It's not going to be a couple of hundred quid on a daytime tv show though, is it? It would be one of the miscarriages of justice of the century if it came out that she was innocent. She'd have nexflix deals, every newspaper in the UK and beyond would be offering her big money for an exclusive, media/tv shows would be chomping at the bit to have her on their show.

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She'll be owed a significant amount of compensation by the government to pay her back for stealing her life from her.

MotionIntheOcean · 04/02/2025 22:04

FlowerUser · 04/02/2025 22:04

She'll be owed a significant amount of compensation by the government to pay her back for stealing her life from her.

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Which if Andrew Malkinson is anything to go by, she'll have a wait for.

Ginnyweasleyswand · 04/02/2025 22:36

The hospital management were desperately looking for someone to blame. At first it was the doctors for raising concerns about Letby, and they were subject to witch hunt behaviour for raising reasonable concerns about Letby (the threats to their licenses and the demand they 'apologise' to Letby). Then it pivoted to be Letby herself who was targeted.

This trial shows the unpleasant psychological propensity of humans to 'witch hunt' like behaviour. From one extreme to another, not even considering the middle, more complex option of a series of management and systematic failures that lead to unsafe working conditions and a greater likelihood that babies would be put at serious risk. There was SEWAGE in the NICU ffs. With those responsible for this getting away with no accountability and keeping their taxpayer funded very generous pensions. There needs to be wider accountability for these failures whatever the true answer is.

Agree with PP that all the people who were working there were far too personally involved to be objective and also agree that there are striking similarities with the Lucia de Berk case.

Statistics were clearly not presented appropriately in the trial. So I don't think the truth is known and possibly will never be known now.

3678194b · 04/02/2025 22:38

Tryingtokeepshtum · 04/02/2025 20:56

For those of you saying you know medical professionals who don’t believe she is guilty, I’m intrigued to know if they’re local, in Chester?

Every single consultant I know thinks she is guilty. There isn’t ONE who thinks she is innocent.

Just for context, I live around the corner from Letby’s old house. I work with all of the consultants she did, including Dr Jayaram who has always been highly thought of. I’ve been around Letby and one of her family members. I personally know the family of one of the surviving victims. I know the mother of another victim who sadly passed away. I just don’t know of anyone (professionally or personally) who thinks she is innocent.

I’m trying to be very careful about how much I say as Chester is a very small city.

One subject that always sticks to mind is, why did she keep all of the patient files of the deceased? Why did she search for them on Facebook continuously? I don’t take ANY patient files home because a) I’m not allowed, b) I have zero interest in keeping them.

Having a background in psychology, there’s a theory behind this that I stick by without going too much into it; no innocent person would keep files stored away for the sake of it.

I really do hope I’m wrong, but I just can’t see how she can be innocent.

I'm sorry you know people with personal experience, my heart goes out to them all and I hope they are bearing through this and getting looked after.

I am local too and work in the NHS. Being local I also agree with you about the opinions on local medics and NHS staff (as well as lawyers).

I know it could have happened anywhere, but awful to think it is on our patch.

Ginnyweasleyswand · 04/02/2025 22:43

I remember reading information from a doctor after the first trial who said the insulin theory was not scientifically sound, which is what these - rather more eminent - experts are saying.

One thing is clear, Letby's first legal team were piss poor, they didn't seem to put up any substantive defence at all. The statistics are dodgy, the medical analysis is dodgy. None of the deaths were recorded as suspicious at the time. Why did they not produce ANY of their own experts? It's bizarre. It's almost as if they wanted her found guilty.

Londonmummy66 · 04/02/2025 22:48

Maia77 · 04/02/2025 17:47

What about Dr Ravi Jayaram's testimony.

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What if he was covering his own backside?

samarrange · 04/02/2025 23:05

Ginnyweasleyswand · 04/02/2025 22:36

The hospital management were desperately looking for someone to blame. At first it was the doctors for raising concerns about Letby, and they were subject to witch hunt behaviour for raising reasonable concerns about Letby (the threats to their licenses and the demand they 'apologise' to Letby). Then it pivoted to be Letby herself who was targeted.

This trial shows the unpleasant psychological propensity of humans to 'witch hunt' like behaviour. From one extreme to another, not even considering the middle, more complex option of a series of management and systematic failures that lead to unsafe working conditions and a greater likelihood that babies would be put at serious risk. There was SEWAGE in the NICU ffs. With those responsible for this getting away with no accountability and keeping their taxpayer funded very generous pensions. There needs to be wider accountability for these failures whatever the true answer is.

Agree with PP that all the people who were working there were far too personally involved to be objective and also agree that there are striking similarities with the Lucia de Berk case.

Statistics were clearly not presented appropriately in the trial. So I don't think the truth is known and possibly will never be known now.

This trial shows the unpleasant psychological propensity of humans to 'witch hunt' like behaviour

A poster in a related thread has pointed out the example of The Traitors, which I watched for the first time this season. It was very funny (because nobody was going to jail) to see how a couple of people would pick up on some apparently "guilty" behaviour and by round table time half the house was voting off a Faithful because they coughed at the wrong moment. This happened about 4 or 5 times.

Maia77 · 04/02/2025 23:07

Londonmummy66 · 04/02/2025 22:48

What if he was covering his own backside?

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It wasn't just him, there were other doctors, like Dr Gibbs, who were concerned and suspected Letby was involved.

thatsalad · 04/02/2025 23:24

Ophy83 · 04/02/2025 19:09

I think the primary scientific question - were the babies murdered? - should be a matter for scientists, and only if that answer is "yes" without reasonable doubt should the question of who is responsible be put to a jury

Thank you. It's bonkers how many people were convinced she was guilty when there is no proof there were any murders. The whole thing is like a modern day witch hunt

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:34

Maia77 · 04/02/2025 23:07

It wasn't just him, there were other doctors, like Dr Gibbs, who were concerned and suspected Letby was involved.

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Every one of them stood to lose face (at least) if the unit's deficiencies were publicized.

Sevenpintsamonth · 04/02/2025 23:38

Londonmummy66 · 04/02/2025 22:48

What if he was covering his own backside?

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Was that when he caught her ‘red handed’ doing ‘nothing’ ?

Londonmummy66 · 04/02/2025 23:43

Sevenpintsamonth · 04/02/2025 23:38

Was that when he caught her ‘red handed’ doing ‘nothing’ ?

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Several PPs who are intensive care nurses have already commented on that saying that it is actually quite routine in an ICU and even Jayram has said that this part of his evidence was misinterpreted. The press conference today was pretty damning about the incompetence on the unit and he would have been a contributing factor to that. How much more convenient to scapegoat a nurse than reflect on the systemic failure of the unit as a whole.

Sevenpintsamonth · 04/02/2025 23:45

Londonmummy66 · 04/02/2025 23:43

Several PPs who are intensive care nurses have already commented on that saying that it is actually quite routine in an ICU and even Jayram has said that this part of his evidence was misinterpreted. The press conference today was pretty damning about the incompetence on the unit and he would have been a contributing factor to that. How much more convenient to scapegoat a nurse than reflect on the systemic failure of the unit as a whole.

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I agree I actually posted earlier about how on nicu I saw nurses watching and waiting for babies to right themselves

rubbishatballet · 04/02/2025 23:47

thatsalad · 04/02/2025 23:24

Thank you. It's bonkers how many people were convinced she was guilty when there is no proof there were any murders. The whole thing is like a modern day witch hunt

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It’s not really that simple in this case though as the suspicions of murder only started to build after a while, so forensic post mortems were not carried out at the time to definitively establish whether or not babies had been murdered. Therefore there’s likely to always be some difference of opinion between experts on cause of death as no one can actually examine any of the bodies and they can only go by notes and secondhand accounts. Which is why all the other evidence examined during the trial is also relevant.

You can still establish a murder has taken place, and a jury can convict, without a definitive cause of death (or even a body in some cases).

MikeRafone · 05/02/2025 04:12

rubbishatballet · 04/02/2025 23:47

It’s not really that simple in this case though as the suspicions of murder only started to build after a while, so forensic post mortems were not carried out at the time to definitively establish whether or not babies had been murdered. Therefore there’s likely to always be some difference of opinion between experts on cause of death as no one can actually examine any of the bodies and they can only go by notes and secondhand accounts. Which is why all the other evidence examined during the trial is also relevant.

You can still establish a murder has taken place, and a jury can convict, without a definitive cause of death (or even a body in some cases).

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What are the chances of 7 murdered babies having a postmortem and every single baby being classed as dying of natural causes not having “ suspicious death” seems odd

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 05/02/2025 06:17

Sunshineandrainbow · 04/02/2025 12:51

Wow it's all very concerning

Why do all these people want to jump on the case to prove her innocence? What is their gain?

Isn't it (blindingly) obvious? These senior experts in their professions are working pro bono because they believe a miscarriage of justice has taken place and wish to address it.

Plus the guy whose name I forget - well, an article he wrote was used by the Prosecution in support of their case in a way that's incorrect and shows they didn't understand the issues. Imagine if something you wrote was incorrectly used as a cornerstone to convict a medical professional!

CerealPosterHere · 05/02/2025 06:20

Maia77 · 04/02/2025 23:07

It wasn't just him, there were other doctors, like Dr Gibbs, who were concerned and suspected Letby was involved.

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Again this could be a case of one or two decide something and start talking others into believing it. Remember there’s the added issue that she was having some form of affair with one of them. Did the others not like this? Did the affair dr have cold feet and try to withdraw and then LL was an issue for him.

CerealPosterHere · 05/02/2025 06:25

MikeRafone · 05/02/2025 04:12

What are the chances of 7 murdered babies having a postmortem and every single baby being classed as dying of natural causes not having “ suspicious death” seems odd

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I think this is a major thing for me. That at the time of their deaths it was put down to natural causes and then these babies were presumably cremated or buried. On an individual basis there is no further medical evidence that they were murdered. Some of these babies had post mortems. Did a pathologist and/or a coroner really get it wrong in about 20 cases?

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 05/02/2025 06:54

FriNightBlues · 04/02/2025 13:02

Why didn't her legal team raise these issues during the trial?

I find this puzzling too. And her barrister scrupulously avoids addressing this, saying he's the fresh pair of eyes to review her conviction

ColourBlueColourPurple · 05/02/2025 07:18

FlowerUser · 04/02/2025 22:04

She'll be owed a significant amount of compensation by the government to pay her back for stealing her life from her.

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Yes I know, which, if she has been wrongly convicted then she'll deserve every penny of. Not that any sum of money could make up for her ordeal.

bakebeans · 05/02/2025 07:27

All the evidence that was submitted was circumstantial and medical evidence highlighted that there could have been other possible causes.
The unit was only meant to be for level 2 care but they were looking after babies who needed level 3 care. Lack of consultants and senior doctors on duty.

oneofmeiscutebuttwothough · 05/02/2025 07:31

There is literally no evidence she is innocent. The people on here justifying these appeals make me sick. She murdered 7 babies. Seven tiny babies who could have grown up to do anything.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 05/02/2025 07:36

oneofmeiscutebuttwothough · 05/02/2025 07:31

There is literally no evidence she is innocent. The people on here justifying these appeals make me sick. She murdered 7 babies. Seven tiny babies who could have grown up to do anything.

Have you watched the press conference?

14 international experts in relevant fields have worked pro bono and concluded that no murders took place. So in that case there is no evidence that she's guilty.