Lucy Letby press conference

[Viviennemary]

There is a press conference going on now trying to get Lucy Letby's conviction overturned. From what I read the guilty verdict was sound. All those ill babies dying when she was alone with them. Just a coincidence? Already been refused an appeal.

It’s all the findings added together that build the case not a single thing

people claiming oh some handover sheets don’t make her a killer - well no they don’t

but add them to the list of other things that occurred and noted then they do point to her being a killer

How did she have a screwed up note that another nurse had discarded in the bin then? Yes poor Lucy that's definitely who we should be feeling sorry for in this case 🙄not the babies, parents or her colleagues.

So if none of the medical evidence proves murder, exactly what is she guilty of? Being a bit odd? Blimey. Lick me up right now. And about 75% of my friends I reckon.

Lock. Not lick. I'm not that odd.

My point still stands - the chart was only used in court to show that she had the opportunity (ie was on shift) to harm or murder the babies listed on the indictment.

Sorry, Richard Gill? Didn’t know that

They don't, though.

When you have medical evidence pointing to natural deaths, not murder, you could have Letby graffitiing the ward with, "I killed them", stealing all their case notes, stalking the families, kicking the incubators ... and you would still have no case for murder.

I certainly heard an audio recording (can’t remember where — maybe linked from here via a newspaper article?) from someone who’d been in her year at school, but it was fairly standard ‘mean girl’ stuff.

It was less some kind of insightful reflection on the character of someone who’d just been found guilty of multiple murders than ‘woman remembering ordinary-sounding girl she hadn’t much liked at school’.

But that’s meaningless if those babies weren’t murdered and we’re a proportion of a bigger cohort of babies who died either unpreventable deaths or poor care

Other nurse said she would normally put notes in the bin. That's all. Mountain out of a molehill.

Mind, if you were double checking something you might take a note out of a bin - why not?

@Oftenaddled and keep it as a souvenir, sure...

I’ve followed this case (a bit obsessively to be honest I’m a nurse and it’s our worst fear being accused of something awful!). Something just doesn’t sit right with me. I know I haven’t been in court/seen all the evidence and am an armchair detective but I’ve never been convinced by the guilty verdicts.

@MistressoftheDarkSide We cannot have it both way. Press in the courts will report on what happens in court. Behind closed doors and no one likes that either. If stories are purchased, so be it. As long as they are truthful and in the public interest.

Nurses work long shifts, so there is nothing odd with her being on shift when a lot of those babies died.

Good choice though, "Nice Lucy." One who wouldn't shout and scream, make a fuss.

But that’s meaningless if those babies weren’t murdered and we’re a proportion of a bigger cohort of babies who died either unpreventable deaths or poor care

Well clearly this was not the case that the prosecution was making @CerealPosterHere !

Either way, the chart was not presented at court as being statistical.

Indeed. The entire case is absolutely tragic. Parents have lost babies. Children have survived yet suffered harm. The publicity around the case must magnify their trauma. I can’t imagine the heartache.

Whether Letby’s guilty conviction remains or whether it’s overturned, her life will certainly never be the same again. If she remains guilty, her jail time and infamy is obvs deserved. If it’s proven to be a miscarriage of justice, she’s lost her privacy, her career and likely her chance of having close relationships or her own family.

What also disturbs me about this, and many other cases, is how mugshots affect public opinion. People look at a police mugshot, splashed across the media, and make their mind up about a person. They seem to forget they’re used to seeing styled, photoshopped pics of famous people as the comparator. And there’s usually an added layer of misogyny when the accused is a woman.

Sorry I'm not entirely sure but we may be talking at crossed purposes - I would like to see more reporting on more complex family law cases, especially those involving medical disputes as i truly believe a startling number if families have been needlessly destroyed based entirely on medical dogma, anonymity of children and families being respected of course.

I tried to research numbers of various cases involving particular contentious child abuse tropes, and discovered that each LA keeps its own records but no national database exists. Or it didn't last time I looked. This would be useful to identify patterns that might point to useful answers in any direction.

I think reporting on cases should be routine, and that all case law should be available in such cases.

Most likely these babies died as a result of the shoddy, crappy NHS, just like so many others have in hospitals around the country. When staff are overworked and undertrained then things will go wrong, people will often start to blame each other rather than accept they made a mistake because they were under duress.

And I work in science and there are plenty of people here with PhDs who make these same kinds of wrong inferences based on stats. It's really easy to trip up on these things - the human brain is designed that way.

It ought to be mandatory that there's some actual evidence in order to convict someone

It's not going to be a couple of hundred quid on a daytime tv show though, is it? It would be one of the miscarriages of justice of the century if it came out that she was innocent. She'd have nexflix deals, every newspaper in the UK and beyond would be offering her big money for an exclusive, media/tv shows would be chomping at the bit to have her on their show.

She'll have been very aware for some time surely that she was being investigated for these crimes. It wouldn't be a surprise or come as a shock. Even though she looked entirely in shock on the photo of her being led out of her house, which is probably how I would present, although I can't say for certain as I've never been in such a harrowing situation.

Yes but that's very misleading and cynical isn't it. It's obviously designed to con jurors who don't realise that correlation doesn't imply causation. I bet the prosecution knew exactly what they were doing with this.

Just finished watching the press conference I'm shocked and angry. Anyone still talking about kept notes and other silly things I urge you to watch it in its entirety

Good choice though, "Nice Lucy." One who wouldn't shout and scream, make a fuss.

Actually plenty of the witness evidence suggested that she was known for being quite officious, entering lots of datix's etc. So possibly not someone you might pick out as less likely to make a fuss.

They absolutely are. The CPS no longer give juries statistical analysis, because the CPS are so terrible at statistics that it gives an easy route to a conviction being overturned. They just show the jury an extract of data, neatly (and misleadingly) packaged to make the point they want, and leave the jury to reach its own statistically incorrect conclusions.