Lucy Letby press conference

[Viviennemary]

There is a press conference going on now trying to get Lucy Letby's conviction overturned. From what I read the guilty verdict was sound. All those ill babies dying when she was alone with them. Just a coincidence? Already been refused an appeal.

I followed the whole trial. There was no evidence . I never understood why she was charged

It is a hopeful sign that the family courts are allowing more reporting. I'm pretty cynical and suspect that the more controversial medical areas might not be as included as one would like. Previous cases such as Sally Clark, and others like Baby P have both sent experts scurrying away from the arena, hence the tiny pool of expert witnesses on both sides but even fewer willing to support accused parents. I think in these cases the adversarial system is spectacularly unhelpful.

@Coffeelotsofcoffee there was heaps of evidence!

how on earth do you think she was convicted?

Many years ago I heard a true story about a young student nurse who carried out a procedure on an elderly unconcious stroke victim & the patient died in front of her. The nurse was so shocked she went around saying to colleagues I killed her. It took her a long time to convince her she hadn't killed her. I don't know if LL is innocent or guilty but there is definitely something in the air 🤔

Many years ago I heard a true story about a young student nurse who carried out a procedure on an elderly unconcious stroke victim & the patient died in front of her. The nurse was so shocked she went around saying to colleagues I killed her. It took her a long time to convince her she hadn't killed her. I don't know if LL is innocent or guilty but there is definitely something in the air 🤔

This case always reeked of negligence by the hospital who used her as a scapegoat.

Wasn’t there something towards the end of the case that they’d messed the door entry thing up? So what they thought were entries were actually exits and vice versa.

Also she was on leave when one of the babies got seriously sick. By the time she was back it was known this baby was going to die?

Plus being there even if she had been there for all of them does not prove guilt if no murders took place!

Plus the table they had was incorrectly drawn up. Other babies died during that period when she wasn’t on shift. They were not on the table. So originally might they have been on the table but then self proclaimed expert Evans realises LL wasn’t on shift so proclaims that wasn’t a suspicious case but instead was natural causes? Surely people must see this is not a robust way of making decisions!

So upsetting to think about if she didn't do any of it. Watching the press conference now :(

Quote from a balanced guardian article here

Richard Gill, an emeritus professor of mathematics at Leiden University in the Netherlands, was involved in two cases similar to Letby’s in which statistical coincidence was wrongly used in part to convict two nurses of murdering their patients: Lucia de Berk, a neonatal nurse in the Netherlands, and Daniela Poggiali in Italy. Their convictions were eventually quashed, thanks in part to Gill’s contributions.
Gill, who has drawn much criticism for pointedly posting on social media during the trial that the Letby shift table was meaningless and that she had suffered a miscarriage of justice, said: “The police investigation and crown prosecution made all the mistakes the RSS warned about. Nobody studied the statistics in a professional way.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/09/lucy-letby-evidence-experts-question

well worth a read.

@MistressoftheDarkSide Neither of those cases were Family Court. They were criminal cases. The Family Court judges make the decision to publish or not. How do you think there’s ever any case law if cases are not published? Some are and always have been because they inform future cases.

For those of you saying you know medical professionals who don’t believe she is guilty, I’m intrigued to know if they’re local, in Chester?

Every single consultant I know thinks she is guilty. There isn’t ONE who thinks she is innocent.

Just for context, I live around the corner from Letby’s old house. I work with all of the consultants she did, including Dr Jayaram who has always been highly thought of. I’ve been around Letby and one of her family members. I personally know the family of one of the surviving victims. I know the mother of another victim who sadly passed away. I just don’t know of anyone (professionally or personally) who thinks she is innocent.

I’m trying to be very careful about how much I say as Chester is a very small city.

One subject that always sticks to mind is, why did she keep all of the patient files of the deceased? Why did she search for them on Facebook continuously? I don’t take ANY patient files home because a) I’m not allowed, b) I have zero interest in keeping them.

Having a background in psychology, there’s a theory behind this that I stick by without going too much into it; no innocent person would keep files stored away for the sake of it.

I really do hope I’m wrong, but I just can’t see how she can be innocent.

Yes, I'm aware, I'm just making a general observation.

Actually, as of last week, accredited journalists can report on family court cases as long as everyone is anonymized. Not the same as case law of course.

@CerealPosterHere

He was banned from commenting on this case publicly and warned by the police

he was actually on MN

She didn't keep all the patient files of the deceased. She had handover notes for some of them, and for other babies too. These are the notes each nurse makes during her or his shift to update the next. They aren't kept on file - they should be thrown out at the end of shift but people have spoken about how they can be brought home in pockets etc.

Yes, that's what I was alluding to really. Progress from being threatened with prosecution for discussing one's own case at all.

Is it possible you’re too close to the case? All of the people you mentioned sound as though they might have a vested interest in defending the hospital, careers and reputations are on the line.

Hang on, you are saying that Dr Jayaram is denying that his professional negligence killed babies? Gosh. What a surprising turn of events. Interesting that you don't comment on what the nurses think, only the doctors, they being the ones the spotlight would turn on if Lucy was found not guilty.

For the paperwork, I have a stack of notebooks in my bedroom. They contain confidential work information, so I shouldn't really have them at home (although home working has blurred that somewhat). I know that if I get rid of them I will need to do so properly, so they can't just go in my recycling bin. But I can't really be bothered with that, so I just leave them in the drawer and don't think about them. I'm right at that junction of being a bit careless with confidential information, but not so careless that I will disregard the rules altogether, and I bet I'm not the only one.

Over 250 brought home in pockets? And stored under a bed, and at a parents house? Yeah right. She had an unhealthy interest in her patients that is VERY clear. It's not proof of guilt but let's not pretend this is all normal.

Oh and let's not forget, notes fished out of bins!

I've always wondered why there have never been any credible stories from people who know Lucy Letby of the "I knew she was a wrong 'un, she kicked my cat" variety. Any insight into why that might be, as it was a complete press free for all throughout, and I bet there were less reputable publications waving their cheque books.

I'm not surprised that consultants at Chester still think she is guilty. Some of them are the people who accused her. People who wer more sceptical in management left the hospital.

People do seem to like Jayaram. I feel very sorry for him. Nobody wants to end up in this kind of situation. I am sure he sincerely believes Letby is guilty. But he has also said, hasn't he, that he never had any objective evidence. He has said he only found a lot of things suspicious retrospectively. He has changed his story, on the record. He has brought up key details only years after the event. Memory can be an odd thing. If he is an honest man as I hope he is, we have to say his memory has been faulty, perhaps under the stress of events.

There must be a lot of trauma at Chester. I think the police there were mistaken to give the consultants such a key role in the investigation. After all, proving Letby guilty cleared their unit, which was facing heavy criticism. I don't think they conspired, but I do think they convinced themselves of her guilt.

Respectfully I would say Chester is too close to events for an objective viewpoint. That's why unconnected, impartial experts are needed. I hope all involved find as much peace and certainty as possible.

Not a shred of proof that ever happened.

As you say, irrelevant to murder. Yes I think she was quite obsessed with her work, poor thing.