To ask why some mothers insist on breastfeeding despite weight loss?

[doodahdayy]

I follow a group on Facebook of babies born during the same month as ds2, and a few mums have had problems with babies dropping centiles along with hospital admissions, formula top ups etc. Despite all this they seem adamant they want to continue breastfeeding. I know bf is optimum when it works, but surely sometimes you need to admit it's just not working? Is it really that rewarding to the mum to keep trying through all the issues? In a few years will it even matter?

Formula feeding isn’t the same as feeding crisps and sweets. BUT the phrase fed is best is so frustrating. Of course fed is best, what’s the alternative? Not feeding at all?

When I hear the phrase fed is best, I always compare it to feeding older children - of course fed is best, but we all know fruit and vegetables and meat and fish is better than KFC and if a mother who gave her children junk food 24/7 defended herself by saying ‘fed is best’ she wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.

Breastfeeding is best and far superior, but if that doesn’t work for you for whatever reason, formula is the alternative.

My first didn’t lost weight BF but was very, very slow to gain any. My HV was supportive for me to keep going as he was a good eater and everything was going well apart from the slow weight gain. After four weeks it was like a switch flipped and he started gaining more steadily. He is 11 now, eats like a horse and is still the skinniest wee think so it’s very much just a him thing as opposed to there being any issue with BF.

For me, the biggest thing that kept me going on with BF at that point was the massive pressure to FF. As anyone who knows me will confirm I never do anything that other people tell me that I should (medical professionals aside!) and I had MIL, SIL, my Mum, Dad, neighbours (yes seriously), absolutely everyone telling me to just switch to FF - none of them had BF and seemed to take it as a personal insult that I was - but HV was supportive, DH was supportive and DS was absolutely fine so I pushed on.

I hope the majority will trust an expert body of scientists, physiologists etc over an economist.

Colostrum is bad?! Absolute nonsense. Let mums feed how they want etc but don’t tell lies!!!!

@Caffeineneedednow I could have written that myself ! Exactly the same situation as you! Hope you managed to get on top of it my dd still has cmpa and she's 7 xx

For me, I knew if I could get it to work, it would be so worth it in the long run (I fed DS for 2.5 years and when BFing works, IMO, it's 10 times easier then formula).

I also have one child in the home who is anaphylactic to cow's milk, so I didn't fancy having a baby spitting up cow's milk in the home.

In the end, we had no choice but to use formula top ups as baby was losing weight and quite unwell, but I only did it for a few weeks and then she was back to BFing. I delayed the formula a few days longer than I should have, in hindsight, but it wasn't an easy call for me to make.

Why on earth would I lie about the women in the hill tribe my nephew is from believing colostrum is bad? I'm not saying they're right. Maybe superstition is a better word than belief. My point is that western women sometimes have a romantic idea about how everyone breastfeeds easily in more traditional societies and I don't think that's necessarily true.

And Oster isn't claiming to have done research herself. She's communicating the findings of large studies on BF / FF long term outcomes, the work of scientists, for people (like me) who aren't as good at statistics as she is.

I really wouldn't give it any thought. You do what suits you and your baby and let other mums do the same without any judgement! Does it really matter as long as mum and baby are happy...doesn't concern anyone else.

I breastfed 2 babies with no problems. I also donated to the milk bank throughout the breastfeeding of my first. My 3rd baby was slow to gain but I wanted to keep breastfeeding because who on earth wants to buy a load of bottles and sterilising equipment when it’s all built in. I perfected the art of feeding my infants in bed, half asleep. Going downstairs to make a bottle/heat a bottle sounds like shit. My milk was there readily available whenever they were and was, far, far more convenient than making up bottles.

@Grinchinlaws I don't understand why you think a link to a clear explanation of the evidence we have on long term outcomes of BF vs FF doesn't belong on this thread?
Really baffled.
There's good evidence that BF helps protect mums from breast cancer, if that's more encouraging to hear.
I just don't think it's ok for people to be saying FF is like feeding an older child KFC every night when there's zero evidence that is true.
Breast feed because it's right for you, enjoy it for the beautiful gift it is to be able to nourish your child from your own body. Don't put other mums down for FF with alternative facts and post truths.

This.

DC1 total disaster I was in intensive care and despite it I still tried and then an older and wise male consultant said ‘Look you survived, she survived. Your body need to recuperate and you need to sleep and put energy into you. She will be fine. It’s not breast feeding that helps the child it’s the loving home for the next 20 years’. I stopped. I put her on formula and it was fine. She’s on predicted 4 A* for A levels so I guess she is ok. (Tongue firmly in cheek).

Second DC lots of pressure many from midwives etc and also from other mums- DC2 I breast fed for 5 months - it nearly killed me. Baby was literally sucking 12 hours or more a day - pure bright red blood out. I was depressed, ill and barely functioning - I lost so much weight etc DC2 suffered, I suffered and it affected my bond with them and I had PND.

I firmly believe control over women is increased when they are vulnerable and this is pregnancy and new motherhood. There is no way that any child in the U.K. is disadvantaged by formula. A study done in the early 2000 showed the biggest single factor in a child success in the USA was the mother’s education level. The second factor was if the household has a dishwasher (ironically a measure of household wealth).

Very similar over here. DD born on the 99.8% centile. I think at 6 weeks or so she had dropped down to 92% and the health visitor told me I needed to take her to the doctor ASAP. I asked the HV for the centile for EBF babies as it’s well known that BM has less fat/calories whatever/surely I’d be laughed out the DR office with my 8 week old who was wearing 3-6m clothing. The doctor said she wasn’t even going to bother weighing DD as she could see a heathy baby when she saw one.

I breastfed DS2 until 13 months. His weight gain slowed substantially but when we tried formula he screamed and refused to take it. We later found out (after an episode with anaphylactic shock) that he was severely allergic to cows milk protein.

Switching to hypoallergenic formula severely increased his reflux and we were cleaning up projectile vomit several times per day.

It was hell. I was desperate to stop breastfeeding, but there wasn't another option. Soya formula is not recommended for babies with CMPA.

Due to the pain and damage to his oesophagus caused by reflux, he didn't eat voluntarily until he was about 2.5 years old.

It was hell, but I did what I needed to do sonny to keep him alive. He's now an older teen with a very healthy appetite.

Don't judge the situations of others if you don't necessarily know the full picture.

It doesn’t belong on this thread because this isn’t a thread debating whether or not bf is “better” than formula.

Making a choice to bf because you, personally, believe it is the right choice for you (for whatever reason, and whether you are right or wrong) is not the same as “putting other mums down for FF”.

If anything, the OP of this thread seemed pretty judgmental about decisions to breastfeed.

I literally don’t give a shit how other mums want to feed their babies. But I 100% believe that bf was the best choice for me and for my babies, for a whole host of reasons, and you can post links to (flawed) studies until the cows come home and they will still be absolutely irrelevant.

Youre not responsible for some kind of public service messaging on this - Im not sure who you think you are educating and why.

Also - no one has said that ff is equivalent to feeding kids KFC. The comment was about how “fed is best” is a nonsensical phrase. Which it obviously is, as there is no realistic alternative to feeding your baby.

I did my best to breastfeed. My child just wouldn’t latch. I sought all the help I could. Went to a specialist clinic, and watched them exhale deeply in defeat when he turned his head away. I got his tongue tie relieved and had a BF specialist visit daily, made sure I woke myself at 3am to feed him - because that hour is best for production.

On day 6, he was lethargic and appeared deprived to the visiting midwife, had lost so much weight, he started turning quite yellow with jaundice, because he wasn’t getting what he needed while I was persevering with breastfeeding because breast is best.
I was told to bottle feed him by the BF specialist that day - she literally made up a bottle and started feeding him there and then.

I pumped 8 times a day until he was 6 weeks until it got to the point where I was producing 15ml after an hour of pumping. At the GP I begged them to give me pills to help me produce more milk. I felt like such a failure. She told me to have a word with myself and bottle was ok now. I still feel upset and judged.

It really pisses me off when I read posts above like:

• “oh, it’s all a lie, babies are supposed to lose weight” yes, they are meant to lose some weight - not a lot.
• “I just persevered because breast is best for x reasons and I want the best for my baby”. Like formula feeding mothers don’t? You don’t appear to get that the baby was able to cooperate with you to make that breastfeeding happen. It wasn’t JUST your very hard work and perseverance.

So stop pontificating as if non-breast feeding mothers don’t want the best for their kids. Sometimes formula feeding is the best option for a child and it doesn’t mean the mother wasn’t willing to persevere or any less determined.

Thank you!

I’m so glad that my friends and family didn’t share the views vocalised on this thread. I have never felt as low as I did trying to feed and it not working - from a fellow non latcher.

I’ve actually found some of the comments on here quite upsetting - as if I didn’t try hard enough when it’s all I focused on for 8 weeks.

@Sayshesheshe Same. It’s horrible, isn’t it? Some comments here are ignorant and abhorrent.
KFC. My life!

OP asked why some mothers persevered when their babies were losing weight.

People have answered, explaining why they wanted to keep trying when it was difficult. You tried really hard so you too must have had a reason for that.

Literally no one has said anywhere that people who don’t bf don’t want the best for their kids.

Me wanting something for my child for x y z reason isn’t relevant to you and your child.
I want my child to play sports because it’s important to me and I think there are benefits to it but that is not the same thing as saying that mothers who don’t encourage their kids to play sports are bad parents.

There is so much emotion around all of this, which is a shame.

@Grinchinlaws I'm not trying to say you, or me, or any mother who chose to BF is wrong! I'm really sorry if that's what you got from my post.
I'm going to say again, I think the evidence is important. The PROBIT study is not flawed, it provides the most robust data we have.
That data absolutely 100% doesn't say chosing to breastfeed is ever wrong! Just that the health outcomes aren't that different for both groups. I wish I'd known and understood that and had put less pressure (on myself) to perform as a perfect mum.

@TheCourseOfTheRiverChanged The study you mention is limited - it looks at the impact of breastmilk on gastrointestinal and respiratory bugs and eczema. It’s not “health outcomes”.

There are a myriad of other reasons why people might want to bf that have nothing to do with those things. This is also a thread talking about people’s historic decisions so you really don’t need to educate anyone.

I think we can assume that all mothers do what they think is best for their children in the circumstances, which includes mothers who ff and also those who continue persevering with bf even when it isn’t working.

@Grinchinlaws Yes, and I answered with a different experience, saying in some cases, like mine, it IS dangerous to persevere EBFing for the baby - as it was in my case. Some people here on this thread think that scenario doesn’t exist.

Literally no one has said anywhere that people who don’t bf don’t want the best for their kids.
You mustn’t have read all the posts. So far in this thread people have written:

• FFing is a ‘minimum standard of care’. Like, jfc
• ‘I want the best for my kid so I persevered with breastfeeding.’ As if FFing in some cases isn’t best and BFing it’s all down to perseverance of a caring mother and nothing else.
• ‘fed is best’ is a lie…
• compared FFing to feeding your child junk food.

So I disagree. But agree with you about the sports analogy. And I agree about all the emotion, but that emotion is there because of comments like this that try to shame and judge people like me, insinuating I don’t want the best fit my kid, and am unwilling to persevere to give him anything above the minimum standard of care.

Because you're told that the less you feed the less you make, supply and demand situation, so when your baby is underweight but you're motivated to breastfeed this advice becomes a constant vicious cycle. Especially when the NHS are useless at picking up tongue tie etc but try to push bf.

@Gansy I think you’ve misunderstood/misinterpreted some of the posts on this.

Fed is best is a ridiculous statement because the word “best” implies that there is an alternative. There is no real alternative to feeding your baby. That’s what the references to minimum standard of care were: feeding your child at all - however you feed them - is the absolute bare minimum that you can expect of a parent, as I’m sure you agree.

If you actually read the posts that mention junk food, you will see that no one was saying FF is equivalent to junk food.

And - once again - someone saying “I want the best for my child therefore I bf” is not a judgment on those who ff, it is just a statement about why someone made the choice that they did in their circumstances.

If I had thought that bf might harm my mental health then I’m sure I would have said “I want the best for my child therefore I Ff” and the statement would have literally no bearing on anyone else whatsoever.

@Grinchinlaws
Thanks for your reply with your take. I’d be happy in this case to have it wrong. I hope I am.

Because breast is best and I wanted to. Mine suffered with CMPA and tongue ties, a bottle wouldn't have helped that. I hired a lactation consultant and MIL (Norwegian, where BF is very much the norm) flew over to help me.

It wasn't easy, but there wasn't any reason not to do it beyond initial discomfort. Hard going for the first month or so and I felt like packing it in, but knew that wasn't the right decision. Went on to feed them both until age four.

Midwives and HV were useless and just kept bottle pushing. I certainly didn't get any pressure to BF from any HCP's!

Yes it matters. It matters at the time and in the future years on as many studies have shown. The fact you don’t know this and have to ask shows you aren’t properly educated into the huge benefits of BF.
Mums carry on despite many challenges because they believe it’s worth persevering. And they are not wrong.
Too many women not given enough bf support and education in this country. I hoped it would be different but 10 years on from my children being babies and it’s still the same shit- if not worse.