To ask why some mothers insist on breastfeeding despite weight loss?

[doodahdayy]

I follow a group on Facebook of babies born during the same month as ds2, and a few mums have had problems with babies dropping centiles along with hospital admissions, formula top ups etc. Despite all this they seem adamant they want to continue breastfeeding. I know bf is optimum when it works, but surely sometimes you need to admit it's just not working? Is it really that rewarding to the mum to keep trying through all the issues? In a few years will it even matter?

Despite all this they seem adamant they want to continue breastfeeding. I know bf is optimum when it works, but surely sometimes you need to admit it's just not working? Is it really that rewarding to the mum to keep trying through all the issues? In a few years will it even matter?

1. It's not always easy and can be very challenging, but even if having to combi feed, with either formula or donor breastmilk, it's 100% rewarding to keep trying to get through all of the issues.
2. Yes, it will matter in a few years because unlike formula, breastmilk contains millions of antibodies from mum, so even receiving a small amount of breastmilk is beneficial to developing their immune system. A child's immune system isn't fully developed until around 6 years old, and breastfeeding is recommended until at least 2 years old. This is because it has significant benefits for the long term health of the child.
3. Sadly, there are associated health risks of formula feeding (not stating this to make anyone feel bad, just stating scientifically proven facts), and therefore, the longer a child can be breastfed, the better overall for their health. Of course, you get anecdotal comments from some people about how their breastfed babies were sicker than their formula fed one etc., but this does not mean that the scientific evidence is wrong.

I was one of those who struggled in the early days. I got lots of support in the end. But the nhs was useless tbh.

I struggled through 8 weeks before things started to get better. And yes during that period between 3 weeks and 6 weeks the weight was not going onto my baby as it should have. It was only at 4 months that I stopped topping up.

It was only at 5 months that I let myself breathe and stop fretting about it.

I was let down badly by the nhs. Thank gawd we were privileged enough to be able to find and afford private help. However as a Brit you are brought up to believe the nhs will be there for you and that the private sector are all scoundrels who will bleed you dry for nothing. So it took us a few weeks to ignore the nhs "helpers" and rely more heavily on the paid support.

It was hard going. And thank gawd we did.

Tongue tie. Hormonal issues. It all combined to make for a blardy mess of what should have been a very natural process.

I actually went on to breastfeed for 8 years. 2 kids. 4 years each.

And no. I'm not your typical Earth mother type. Quite the opposite in fact.

And now that first born who fought with me to make it happen, is a strong tall smart funnny wonderfully growing child and they paved the way for the 2nd child. We didn't really have a ceremonial handing over from 1 to the other but we should have!!!!.

So don't look down on these families who want to make it work. It should work. But some need a little more help than others.

Unfortunately in our society we have lost that mother to mother natural support structure that allegedly existed in the past which would have been there for these families when they needed it. Rather than HCPs trying to fill in after problems are entrenched.

However we have MN, NCT, LLL, ABM and IBCLCs and doulas to try to fill the gap. And what a fabulous job they do. Keep it up ladies.

And the advantages:
Able to Co sleep with your baby from very smalll (not advised for bottle feeding families)
My husband got more sleep but was still
Close to us when i was breastfeeding as it didn't wake him!! So we maintained a closeness others we know did not..

No sterilising
No faff in the middle of the night or when travelling
Easiest tool in my motherly box to calm a child
Hungry - stick on boob
Teething - stick on boob
Bored - stick on boob
Poor tummy - stick on boob
Hurt knee - stick on boob
No idea what is wrong with baby - stick on boob

Also - formula cannot replace what BM has in it. So if you can make it work, why wouldn't you?

And yes. I went back to work par time after 10m with one child and full time at 5m with the other. Both still bf until they were 4yo.
1st was combi fed for 4-5 months. But that is what formula was to me - like a medicine. They needed feeding. So I fed them. With BM or formula. And when I could manage it they only had BM but we had been warned that there was a possibility this may never happen. But it did. Thankfully.

Breastfeeding for 2 years or more has been proven to restore bone density and then some, which is very important for women! I've been bf for 27 months and in peri now and I'm very grateful as osteoporosis was a real worry for me.

Formula feeding your baby is not the equivalent of just feeding a child crisps and sweets. I don't think that's exactly what you meant but it is how it's come across.

Um

• massive pressure from HVs, midwives
• postpartum hormones making it seem like you'll fail as a mother if you don't exclusively breastfeed
• the term " exclusive breastfeeding", the whole online and NCT cult surrounding it
• the complete lack of education among most HVs, midwives etc about combination feeding

We combination fed for 9 months (not by choice, because baby wouldn't latch for a long time after birth, and I never quite had full supply as a result) and honestly my mental health has never been worse than those first 3 or so months. But I later came to realise what a blessing having husband give a bottle of formula while I pumped was.

Breastfeeding is way easier in the long run, just look at the other thread about faffing around with bottles in the middle of the night.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everybody-calm-down-about-breastfeeding/
Emily Oster's explanations of what the data actually shows are really important, I think. Alot of the claims that have been made for EBF on this thread aren't backed up by any data. I love her emphasis on breastfeeding being right when it feels right for mum.
I experienced huge pressure to breastfeed AND ENJOY IT. The pressure really came from myself, I had lots going on including PND, but I really wish I could have enjoyed the amount of breastfeeding I got to do without the endless ladling of guilt that's so readily available to mums.
There's alot of romanticism about all things natural. My nephew's father is from a villiage in south east Asia. My sister has lived there and stays there often. They have a traditional belief that colostrum is bad for babies and mothers are encouraged to not feed their bubs themselves until their milk comes in. So this idea that just beyond living memory there was a wonderful world of easy, natural breastfeeding in harmony with the way things should be is, I don't know, probably rose coloured glasses.
The mortality rate for little ones has been so high at different points, I really don't think we can say with confidence that mums just got on with breastfeeding and it's only today that so many mothers can't manage it.
I think each mum can only speak for herself, and comments like "it's 100% rewarding to keep trying to get through all of the issues" are not respectful of the differences between us. I think I possibly pushed a bit too hard and it would have been better if I'd held it more lightly, not wrung myself out so much.
I also, in the end, managed half BF, half FF just fine despite dire warnings that the moment my bub was in the same room as a bottle he'd never look at a nipple again.

For me, I could see that it was just that DS1 (and I suppose me) hadn't figured it out yet (plus after EMCS, my milk took a little while to come in properly). He lost a little over 10%, but then, with the support of my midwife and an aggressive schedule (I found my notebook from it the other day actually, noting every feed and nappy for weeks), he got back on track and fed until he was 3.

Personally, I preferred it to seeing people who bottle fed and had to remember all this stuff when they took the baby out. The last thing I wanted to do was also be responsible for bottles. It was a huge change for me when he was weaning and I had to remember to put snacks in the nappy bag!

Horses for courses. I kept going because I could see a way through, and really didn't want the faff of bottles.

@TheCourseOfTheRiverChanged people are just giving their reasons why they personally made the decisions they did.

You really don’t need to get into arguing about how you think people have got the facts wrong. Of course when people post they are speaking for themselves.

@Grinchinlaws I 100% agree that it's a good thing when women freely share their personal reasons for EBF / FF / any combination of the above.
But I disagree that it isn't important for women to have access to the facts. I think it's incredibly important for women to know what reliable data show us, in all areas of parenting.

My child went from 25th to 2nd centile. I did everything I was told to do. Pumped every feed, topped her up, made sure I woke her every 3h. I asked professionals about formula and they said no as I was pumping enough milk. We went to feeding clinic more then once a week. I did what I was told. At 3 months she's fully breast fed, not topped up and back above the 25th centile.
Even though she's still nipple shield dependent it's was easier to get a boob out and slap a shield on then faffing with bottles when out and about.

I said it was a complete exaggeration and a sample. Geez.

Three out of 4 of my babies dropped centiles and were bf. One even went below the lowest line ie less than the 1% centiles, but introducing formula was never suggested. All are healthy, intelligent slim and successful adults

No need for the geez, it's not a big deal, I just was pointing out if you were a new mum it might be a rubbish thing to read.

It’s controversial for some reason but you aren’t wrong.A family members baby went from the 70th centile to 0.5 by 6 months.

I get for some people there is a biological urge to BF but in those extreme scenarios where the baby is not just not gaining but losing vast amounts of weight you must surely put your ego second to the immediate health of your baby.

Moving around in the early weeks is a normal part of establishing breastfeeding but allowing your baby to drop for months in a row is awful imo.

Speaking for myself I continued with exclusive pumping for months whilst trying to find out why we were having issues because it's extremely rare that there's an unresolvable reason for it "not working" as you put it. I then went forward to feed direct until 3.5. In doing so I have significantly reduced my risk of developing breast cancer. I have also given my children health benefits that will last their lifetime, even though you couldn't see this by looking at them. The difference between them and formula fed children are well researched. It's a huge motivation to bf and resolve all the issues I could to do so.

Presumably there are a fair number of babies who drop down the centiles because they are "finding their level". Just like babies who start out a bit small, and then get bigger. Two of mine were massive (over 11lb!) and ended up as slim toddlers/kids. There's nothing inherently wrong about dropping down the centiles.

I never even attempted breastfeeding. I never wanted to. I must admit, pressure and judgement wasn’t something I experienced at all. Maybe it’s because I was quite single minded about it, but they just passed me a bottle of my chosen formula and I got on with it.

No regrets here. My kids are great. It’s a very very small part of the parenting journey and I’ll never understand why some parents get so hung up about it.

I was going to breastfeed with my first then got stitches and with my second never got help so I didn't try. It's definitely each to their own, I do see the good and the bad, I do see that people feel pressure and struggle for the baby to latch and the sleep deprivation. I don't like the idea that I may not have been able to express and also that my baby may not want a bottle once they are used to the boob. I get people do it as its good for bonding and weight loss.

@TheCourseOfTheRiverChanged it’s not relevant to this thread, is it?

OP is asking why people made the decisions they did, in the past. You really don’t need to interrogate that and it’s just such a tedious debate. I could post a lot of studies as well contradicting that Oster report you linked, and point out all the other things that she didn’t consider which are also relevant to the decision but I won’t bother because it’s not the point of the thread.

No, it’s definitely not.

It’s more like choosing between a fresh apple picked from a tree vs a pear that has been put through chemical processes and had various vitamins etc added to it so it has the same nutritional content and superficial resemblance to an apple, and then has been stored in a tin.

I can totally see why some women really want to give their babies the fresh apples, and think it’s worth persevering through initial difficulties.

Agree @Grinchinlaws

Right - but was that baby meant to be on the 70th centile? For example, my friend had a massive baby due to poorly controlled gestational diabetes, it was absolutely correct that her baby dropped down the centiles (she bottle fed fwiw).

You can't expect a baby to neatly follow the growth charts, we're all different, my two kids certainly are!

Do you feel that women whose babies don't thrive on formula should also "admit" that they were wrong to formula feed and should have breastfed?