To ask why some mothers insist on breastfeeding despite weight loss?

[doodahdayy]

I follow a group on Facebook of babies born during the same month as ds2, and a few mums have had problems with babies dropping centiles along with hospital admissions, formula top ups etc. Despite all this they seem adamant they want to continue breastfeeding. I know bf is optimum when it works, but surely sometimes you need to admit it's just not working? Is it really that rewarding to the mum to keep trying through all the issues? In a few years will it even matter?

I have to say with my most recent pregnancy I wasn't pressured either way. I think midwives (in London anyway) go with your wishes and don't push an agenda either way

So I'm one of those people who really can't make enough milk. All the risk factors ticked...

Still breastfeeding my 2 year old and vaguely wondering how I now tell her that the beloved "Beebies" aren't hers for life.

Why so long, when she's been combi-fed since her NICU admission on Day 5 seriously dehydrated? It's because I wanted to. As an asthma / eczema / allergy sufferer, I wanted to try to protect her from that if I could help it. She also always latched well - from 10mins after birth, and thereafter (which was why no-one realised she was starving - everything looked fine!)

It was not easy maintaining breastfeeding alongside bottle feeding, and I can give lots of tips about successful combifeeding now. However the breastfeeding was always the best way to calm her, helped me get more sleep, has a protective aspect with breast cancer etcetera. I never really doubted my choices, and after the first couple of exhausting months, and the decision to stop pumping.

I do find the forceful "fed is best", "there us too much breastfeeding pressure" etc "don't be judgemental against those who can't do it" attitudes just as upsetting and offensive as the evangelical and smug "breastfeeding is best". Of course, I had the worst of all worlds (sore nipples AND bottles to sterilise, night feeds took 3x as long in the early days with breastfeed, bottlefeed, then pump!) but also the best (could calm and feed by just pulling out a boob, but also could always leave baby to fed from a bottle by her dad).

Just do your own thing, and butt out of anyone else's choices! Though, as I tell new parents now - ignore all feeding faff, it's just the first of MANY big parenting decisions, that people will go on about!

The "breastmilk" in the first few days isn't milk, it's colostrum, which is full of antibodies and white blood cells from the mother's immune system. This colostrum gives the baby its first immunity to infections. If the mother doesn't breastfeed for those first few days, her baby won't get that first immunity.

1. they aren't losing weight. They are dropping centiles. There's a difference.Centiles which in the UK are distorted by formula feeding. If there's weight loss that's a much more of an issue. Don't confuse the two.
2. when DS was in this situation dropping centiles ever so slightly, we managed to find the Norwegian centile charts. The rate of breast feeding in Norway is much much higher. DS was tracking his birth centile perfectly. Meanwhile I was being told to top up.

At this point, I lost all time and respect for the nonsense I was being told.

I had enough evidence to show there wasn't actually a problem. I doubt Norwegian babies are less healthy than British ones...

@RedToothBrush oh that's really interesting and making me want to compare DS2's chart against a Norwegian one!

This is inaccurate. The centile charts for weight are based on….weight :s

Charts used in the UK are based on data from breastfed infants www.rcpch.ac.uk/resources/uk-who-growth-charts-guidance-health-professionals

This would be me. The convenience and benefits of breastfeeding (and having successfully fed two into toddlerhood) would make me very reluctant to consider formula. No judgement at all to those who are in a different situation, but I would try everything before switching to formula.

I think I’m alone in my group of friends in that I EBF, didn’t pump or combine with formula and didn’t give up.

Breast feeding was unbelievably easy for me, I never had a single moment’s discomfort and I had a copious supply.

I’d support any mum that decided it wasn’t for her, for whatever reason. Babies will get fed and thrive whatever way they’re fed. I don’t think anyone should make someone feel guilty. I have one friend that never even considered breast feeding. Her choice, not my business.

Good for mum’s health too. Their is evidence is reduces breast cancer.

The pressure to BF is immense. When things don’t go well and you ask for help, the advice is overwhelmingly to persist and it will work out.
I made myself and DD unwell by following this, then my milk dried up and we had to FF. A relief as the choice was out of my hands.
Good advice would have been to mixed feed. I wasn’t in a good place mentally to think this through myself though.

Breastfeeding related weight loss is typically a very short term problem. It can often be solved with the right help and dedication.

Unless there is an underlying health issue for the baby, It’s all about demand creating supply.

I persevered with DS1 because formula turned him into a screaming banshee and babies don't follow a line on a graph!
He had a very tight tongue tie so yes it was difficult at first but after 3 weeks he then put on weight very quickly and I had an oversupply so became a milk donor when he was 3 months old.

Nobody tells the baby they are supposed to follow a fictional line on a graph either!
DS1 went from 91st percentile birth weight to 25th by 6 months.....except he's then stayed on the 25th for weight ever since and is now a 6 year old who eats more food then I do!

It’s so harrowing for mum when baby isn’t gaining weight, and it’s so taxing and difficult to breastfeed, particularly those early months,
ive never seen anyone say a mum is persevering through all that because it’s rewarding for her, what an unusual take

I’d love someone to say to a social worker I’m feeding my kids so I don’t know what the problem is when their whole diet is sweets and crisps. Yeah I know that a complete exaggeration but totally agree.

Breast is best. You might not like it but it is true and there are any number of studies to show this to be true.

If you can’t or decide to bottlefeed, fine. But agreed with this poster, let’s not lie.

In the town I live in there’s one, that meets once a month.

There’s also one two towns away, that meets once a fortnight. And is a twenty four mile round trip.

Two out of three health visitor roles are vacant, so if you need feeding support - you generally end up back at the hospital.

There’s a world outside london, and life in it is quite different.

I agree with this. The convenience of breastfeeding made my life so much easier. By nature I’m quite lazy and the effort it takes to formula feed compared to breastfeeding is massive. I didn’t own one bottle for my three kids, didn’t need to sterilise, all my FF friends had so much paraphernalia - prep machines, bottle warmers, sterilisers, tablet things.

I’ve been on both sides of the argument. However I am lucky that I was surrounded by people that didn’t judge if I went for breast of formula - but in my heart I know that when breast feeding works, it’s great. When it doesn’t work, that’s ok, because you just need to feed your baby.

My first didn’t latch well at all. I caught an infection a month in, and had to stop. She wasn’t gaining weight so they suggested I combi fed. I actually remember enjoying the idea of breastfeeding - but it was painful. It’s all a blur, but formula wasn’t great for my baby either - terrible constipation. I was glad when we didn’t have to buy formula anymore and moved into solids.

My second I breastfed exclusively until he was weaning. The first week or so was painful but I kept going because that’s how it is. It’s not smooth sailing. I was lucky to have a friend that was encouraging as she became a breastfeeding buddy and I was able to get help on things to make the process easier. I really loved the ease of breastfeeding and baby absolutly loves it - breast is comfort aswell as food in a way formula isn’t. I know people don’t want to hear it, but I feel my second was better fed than my first. But I don’t beat myself up about it because it is a very small part of their lives. My eldest is healthy and I am happy I tried.

I think women should have a breastfeeding buddy from the offset. I don’t think hospitals do enough at all!! We don’t produce a lot of milk for the first few days, the body has to get used to your baby feeding. There is so much misinformation about breastfeeding.

If you want to bottle feed then do so - but don’t feel bad about it. I think most people (women mainly) that have seen the struggles of breastfeeding actually encourage formula. It’s easy in one aspect - and much easier now that they have the ready made mixtures.

The truth is you have to persevere with breastfeeding before you can tell yourself it hasn’t worked - if that’s what you want. But I’m glad it’s such a small part of raising kids.

I had the opposite, 20 years ago I wanted to continue with bf but was pushed into ff by the 'professionals' because ds weight was not following the lines.
Worst thing I could have done. I eventually, after many appointments and arguments with those professionals, persuaded them that there was something else going on. He had a cows milk protein allergy all along. Switching him to formula had made him significantly more ill, particularly as I don't have much cows milk in my diet having been brought up on goats milk!
The same HV that told me I either switched or she'd get social services involved then, 3 years later when I had my second child, told me she had been wrong to do that and invited me to help with a bf support group she had started to support mums in my area.
My point is that professionals aren't perfect, they will and do get it wrong. Sometimes they'll push bf when they maybe shouldn't and sometimes ff. It's frustrating but hopefully improved since 20 years ago!

Because it's the normal way to feed human babies and it's food that's specifically targeted to them and cannot be equalled by any other substance. And unless it turns out so you really can't carry on, those mothers are determined to carry on. Good for them, I never had that determination.

But it's true. Breast is simply best. Formula currently does have the nutritional components to help baby grow... but it has none, zero of the immunity component to provide.

Every farmer knows that calves that have not had colostrum are weaker, and more sickly. This happens to every mammal... and humans are mammals. Colostrum provides crucial immunity protection for the baby, which continues with breastmilk and through contact between the baby's buccal mucosa and the mother's breast tissue (they actually communicate to one another, and the breast tissue can activate the mother's immune system to produce specific antibodies to attack pathogens that they detect on the baby).

Formula is a highly processed chemical mix of dehydrated cows milk, supplements and vitamins. If breastmilk is not available or there are issues with supply, then we are lucky we have a substitute. But it is definitely not the same.

Most people who defend feeding formula to babies would not even have dehydrated milk themselves. But it's great for babies, apparently.

The statement that "breast is best" is not made to shame anyone. Not everyone gives the best of everything to their children at all times. Most chuildren have the occassional unhealthy treat or meal. Some babies have to have formula, some mums choose to give formula for their own valid reasons. But it's, simply, not the best option.

It’s normal for babies to loose weight at the beginning
Most babies take about 2weeks to regain their birth weight but not all and breastfed babies take longer than formula fed babies. This generally has nothing to do with quantity as milk is produced on a supply and demand basis.

Personally I would chose to stick with it but I never had any issues even feeding twins.

I have seen a lot of mums have problems with their relationships, mental and physical health due to breastfeeding but they won’t stop as it’s ’best for baby’

This was me too. I wasn’t bothered about breastfeeding before I had her but as soon as she arrived felt like I should give it a go otherwise I’d massively fail her.

My experience was

• when she was born a midwife shoving my nipple into her mouth and then asking me when she wasn’t feeding
• requesting feeding team support on the ward and being told they’d gone but there was a group the next day. I cried so much in the group I left.
• getting home and the visiting midwife trying to help but being baffled by why she wouldn’t latch
• paying for lactation consultant
• feeling judged for using formula top up
• crying every day for a MONTH because our feeding was so awful and baby didn’t reach her birth weight for 4 weeks
• being told I wasn’t eligible for nhs feeding support because my goal wasn’t to EBF (at that point my goal was to have a thriving baby)
• her not gaining weight for a week at my 8 week check when I’d reduced the formula because BF was going better I thought, the GP telling me that I had to up formula again

on reflection my belligerent approach to BF’ing at all costs had a detrimental impact on my baby and our bond. She’s 3 months and I cannot forgive myself for not being able to give her what she needs with my body.

She’s now primarily a formula baby but I still BF through the day because I feel like I should.

and @HipToTheHopDontStop you probably don’t mean this but as someone reading your comment having been through all that, it’s great to hear that I’m apparently giving my baby the minimum standard of care by FF.

I know that when I had DS 20 years ago virtually none of the midwives had breastfed. So most of their experience was theoretical. Some were brilliant others a bit useless but admitted they didn’t have personal experience. They were really supportive, though with DS who was prem, jaundiced and I had a c section. There was much celebrating when he successfully latched and fed really well after being tube fed and regularly offered the breast for 4 days. We never looked back, finally giving up at 22mnths.
Two things I did observe were

1. bf is on demand and for the first 4 weeks demand can be 24/7. Everytime they have a growth spurt it goes back to cluster feeding. If you have only experienced ff babies, through friends & family, you can become disillusioned. The first thought is that you’re not producing enough milk. It has more to do with the size of your babies stomach. DS rarely threw up because he only drank enough to fill his stomach. Bottle teets allow a much higher flow rate so babies can take more but then it just overflows and comes straight back up.
2. bf takes time, babies enjoy feeding from the breast, it’s warm they can hear your heartbeat and it’s better than a cuddle. Because DS was talking when I stopped feeding him he could tell me why he preferred it to a bottle. The only bottle he would take milk from was the Tommee Tippee because it “ felt warm on his cheek like my boob” . It’s more than just a meal, it’s a whole sensory experience

I think that because bf was lost to several generations our mothers and grandmothers feel a bit helpless. They often struggle supporting you and resort to their own experiences. I think the one comment/question I was repeatedly asked by female family was “how do you know they are getting enough milk”. Which to a bf mum early on is worrying. But once you realise that if your baby is content, gaining weight at their bespoke rate then you don’t have to measure their health in ml of milk.
fn the past a whole community of women supported new mothers and probably wet nursed the odd baby to teach them how to suckle and gave a top up feed until the new mums milk came down.
Wet nursing was a popular profession until the 20th century. I’m quite certain it was common to nurse grandchildren, nieces and nephews to help out at times. How else did large families survive?

They changed the red book charts in 2009 for both formula fed babies and Brest fed babies.

( I had my kids before then so the red books for mine were useless as then they were only based on growth data for formula fed babies.)