Pronouns at work/being gender critical at work etc

[Leafstamp]

If you are a woman and have your pronouns in your email signature at work, can I ask why?

If you haven't given it much thought, are you open to being persuaded that, albeit in a small way, this practice of declaring pronouns is contributing to a movement that harms women, children and LGB people?

Equally, if you are already clued up on this and consider yourself a sex realist/gender critical are you able to be open about this at work and challenge instances were gender identity ideology is being unduly promoted? Do you find that others agree with you?

I work in a small company where none of this goes on, so I am curious.

Sorry? Unicorn has had an opinion at the matter at hand, pronouns in emails, same as everybody else.
I'm not interested in irrelevant videos , or facetious comments about double negatives
I gave some opinions on what I thought about the matter at hand. Agree, disagree, or move along.

For the benefit of those who have not seen either:

• It's ma'am guy https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb6OpRfyLFo
• Luna Spain assaulting a filming bystander and breaking a glass door https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/trans-starbucks-transphobic-customer-police-investigate/

When you put pronouns in your email, you are taking the side of these entitled violent men. Why wouldn't that cause me anxiety?

You didn't struggle, you just wanted to point out how terribly clever you are. Surely someone of your magnificent intelligence could have had a stab at what I said.
I actually don't use my pronouns in emails, but I respect that some people do and why (if you have a better stalk, ive referred mainly to logistics in the work place based on my experience). Hardly the most offensive opinion in the world or remotely bait worthy!

I'm not taking the side of violent men.

Given those people don't send emails in my workplace, which was the original question, it's an irrelevant point.

I had a stab at it and couldn't figure out "I just don't feel the vast majority genuinely don't understand". Do you mean that you think that they do understand, or do you think that they don't understand?

In formal logic terms, the equivalent would be someone writing NOT A NOT B and then acting surprised when readers emailed to ask "is this (NOT A) AND (NOT B) or is this NOT (A AND NOT B)?" because the two have different outcomes.

I can program computers in four languages and deal with resolving clearly-stated negative conditions all the time. The problem is your grammar, not my parser.

Both these men lost their shit because of perceived "misgendering". It's ma'am guy lost his shit because someone addressed him and another customer collectively as "guys". No amount of apologising or trying to explain would appease him. Luna Spain lost his shit because a customer referred to his female non-binary colleague as being female. Again, no leeway given, no patience, no acceptance that referring to someone as a "lady" is politely-intended.

When you put your pronouns in your email signature, you signal to me that:

1. Pronouns are important enough to you that you feel the need to state them in every email you send.
2. You might lose your shit with me if I get it wrong in your eyes.
3. No apology will be enough if I get it wrong in your eyes.
4. You will take the side of anyone who thinks I've got it wrong.
5. At best, you are a useful idiot for people who fit points one to four.

Basically, pronouns in email signatures are a big warning sign that I need to be on eggshells around you.

Actually, maybe that's a useful piece of information to have...

It's interesting you make great mention of the fear these people strike in you, just to accuse me of the same (walking on eggshells) when all you've done is repeatedly insult me.
Bye now.

Always been openly GC at work (education) fir the last 10 years when the subject has come up (SRE etc). A few raised eyebrows and half-arsed admonishments from some. No compelled pronounce signatures, lanyards or similar though, thank goodness.
Felt sense of relief when the findings of the Cass review was published, as did many colleagues, I believe.

If you had bothered to watch the videos, you might understand the fear.

There are none so blind as do not wish to see.

I absolutely do not wish to see those videos or read your posts, no.

Hopefully you will now leave me alone and stop picking out my posts just to fling insults at me for giving a view (which just for any avoidance of doubt was that I don't use pronouns on emails but understand why people do), but I doubt it, but il ask anyway. Please leave me alone.

It absolutely is confusing when you think someone is referring to multiple people and then halfway through the conversation you realise they're actually talking about one person who believes they're neither a man nor a woman.

It's also hugely problematic in situations where you do actually need to know whether "they" are a man or a woman.

I think all of this is ignoring a few elephants in the room:

1. The chances are you already know full well whether Sam in Legal is male or female. The chances of you corresponding with someone in Legal (or any other department) exclusively by email, without ever picking up the phone or seeing them face to face, or, in this day and age, having a Teams meeting with your cameras on, AND that person having a unisex name, are pretty slim.
2. If all of that does happen and the person is called Sam or Alex, he or she is not likely to be offended by you getting it wrong because they will be used to this happening. If it really bothered them they would put Samuel/Samantha/Alexander/Alexandra in their email signature instead.
3. What people are actually worried about in this situation is misgendering someone with a foreign name. If their name is the equivalent of Chloe or Thomas in their own culture, they might be offended that you don't know something as basic as whether they have a typically male or female name. (But even then, they probably won't be because it probably happens to them all the time.) But people tend to use unisex British names as their examples because they're afraid to say they never know whether someone with an Indian or Nigerian name is male or female.
4. Having pronouns could be useful for avoiding this rare embarrassment, but for one thing. The entire reason why we are being encouraged to do this is for the benefit of people who want to be called "she" when they are male, or "he", when they are female, or "they" because they don't want to be either. As such, pronouns in email signatures aren't necessarily an accurate reflector of reality and so lose the limited utility they might otherwise have had.

That means that all they really do is signal adherence to ab ideology.

@UnicornWorld It is confusing. In my lived experience, I have been confused multiple times by this.

In work conversations people saying 'they arrived at 6pm', 'they are going to have breakfast'. I am expecting it to be more than one person. It is confusing.

It is not ignorant to say that a change in grammar that I have been taught since pre-school, and using for 50 years, is confusing.

But if it was the case your colleague identified as they , when referring to them you would know the they or them is singular.

I do get that it's a change. I also think that the people who say its confusing can be at times disingenuous.

@selffellatingouroborosofhate I am incredibly proud of the person I am. Being female is intrinsic to who I am, it is the reason I am a mother, it is the reason my DH fell in love with me (because I can guarantee, as he is straight, that he would not have gotten to know all my other wonderful qualities if I wasn't female) - it is what makes me a daughter, and a sister.
I appreciate that you personally do not find it something to take pride in, but I don't think that gives you the right to question so sneeringly why I would?
And I'm sorry that you infer so much from my inclusion of pronouns and that it triggers you so badly. There isn't anything I can say to change your reactions, so I think the best way to progress is for us simply to agree to disagree, and hope that we don't both work together, so your low opinion of me with my pride and self love and pronouns colors your ability to work with me.

It's simply that I don't understand the entire concept of being proud of an accident of birth. It makes as much sense to me as being proud to be born with brown hair or two ears.

I'm proud of what I have done, not what nature gave me.

No, I'm talking about conversation with colleagues about client arrivals and arrangements.

It just get's silly, in the end my colleague has to say 'no, they are 1 person'.

I mean what is so awful about being a he or a she? It's just a term of reference. I'm not expecting a 'he' to sort out our plumbing, or a 'she' to arrive with cakes.

What's wrong with just admitting you are a he or a she???

Surely if you're ex-NHS, you're aware of the problem that Dr would cause if you're relying on sex based titles......

At least Dr is an actual title, unlike the made up Mx, which isn't even pronounceable.

Womxn. Latinx. Both with no consideration of dyslexic people or people whose first language isn't English.

And #actuallyLatino LGBT people don't want Latinx anyway, they prefer Latine if they aren't comfortable with Latino or Latina because "x" doesn't work so well in Spanish. ("Mexico" is pronounced "MEH hee koh".)

I do, because I'm making the point that I support trans people. I will respect their identity, I will use the correct pronouns, and I will believe they are who they say they are.

Whether you have a political axe to grind about trans people makes no difference to making sure my colleagues know I support them.

Mux. Meaning neither, which incidentally is what is being advocated for by many posters who don't want to reveal they are a woman.

Out of interest, why do you believe they are who they say they are?

You really can't see why people are proud to be female?

I agree with @selffellatingouroborosofhate

I am as much proud to be female as I am proud to be a human not a dog.

Women do great things, and I guess you could say that when I see examples of that it might evoke feelings of pride. But many women are also traitors to their sex and that creates an opposite feeling. Similar with humans in general - they do great things and they do awful things.