Thread 16 Starmer - Mad World

[DuncinToffee]

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5251589-thread-15-starmer-nolite-te-bastardes-carborundorum?page=40&reply=141533067

I have mixed feelings on WS. Sometimes I love things he says, and he seems to be able to deliver them in a firm, calm manner. Then just sometimes I'll feel a bit wary of him.

Summed it up exactly! That is exactly how I feel about him.

He’s competent and convincing but I can’t shake off the feeling his primary motivation is to be a Career Politician and so doesn’t have any firm principles to base his choices on. I’ve managed to shake off the unease I felt about his behaviour towards gender critical women in the past, but I can’t 100% trust that in future he would act in the interests of anyone but Wes Streeting.
But then again, I feel that about quite a few politicians, Left and Right!

A bit of a fuck you to some recent posters, no ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqjvyyn7k99o

No I'm not either despite their increasingly desperate attempts again this morning.

Naughty Jane 😀

I'm interested in the deleting anyone who says Torybot approach. I didn't necessarily think that means people think they are actual bots , just that they have automatic responses with a predictable script. It's a well worn epithet. Theresa May was the Maybot

Have a listen to his interview on the James O’Brien Full Disclosure podcast. It made me view him in a more positive light. He’s definitely further to the right than I am, but I think his motives and instincts are good.

I have mixed feelings about Trump’s good opinion…
And also about finding myself agreeing with him on this.

There is a saying that is probably being lost in these days of Memes (incidentally am I alone in seeing Memes as just updated well worn sayings - usually with less subtlety, but occasionally a picture helps)

"I can't afford to discard a tool because I don't like it's design".

You don't have to like (for example) WS as long as he is doing an effective job.

And a cabinet of identikit picks would be a disaster - look how well it did for the Tories with Brexit.

"Identikit picks" - maybe time to evolve from alliteration to half rhyming. Could be a journey. Have to re-read my "Faerie Queene" (I hope we all have one on the shelf, next to Marvell ?)

Stopped clocks and all that. But this should put a fucking massive spoke in all the Sneerbots that have cropped up, and give St. Kemi pause for thought.

Whether Trump has done it to show the Man from Musk that it's Donnie T that is running the show and don't forget it is debatable. However it will certainly have that effect.

It's telling that Farage has been slightly absent from our press these past days. I suspect his spidey senses have started to tingle and he is re-evaluating what's best for Nigel. He is - in fact - Making Plans for Nigel.

Trump wants a US trade deal. He will probably get one quite quickly, because a lot of work is already done. I think we want one too.

That explains his nice guy approach. The rest of his team dislike Starmer.

I think we flatter ourselves. Why would Trump need a UK deal over the EU and China ?

I am prepared for the rather shocking and quite incredible idea that we may - just may - not know everything. What with not being as clever as the other 99% of posters about ... well about anything.

So there may be more to this than meets the eye.

Along with losing well-worn sayings, most folk probably haven't a clue about parables and fables. The one about the sun and the wind springs to mind.

No skin off my nose if people don't know and can't be bothered to learn one sentence crumbs of wisdom. I'd take those over three word slogans anyday.

At some point, he is going to want a favour from us. He might also want a favour from some of other nations - who he is threatening at the moment.

How do you get nations to do favours for you if you antagonise them?

Starmer already gave Trump a look in on Chagos?

Politics is not that complicated. People just want to feel safe. That is all it boils down to, essentially. Safe from hybrid warfare, wars, interference, maintenance of standard of living, to the extent possible, etc., safe on the streets, not falling over potholes.
Starmer’s job is to keep us all safe, whatever it takes. If the polls and the world are going right, it is absolutely the correct thing to centre themselves. We can centre ourselves optimally on the world stage too. In between the super powers, a negotiator, a diplomat.

As I said, and it's a common view. Trump is transactional. He doesn't do mutual benefits or investing in relationships. This is why he appears to flip-flop. What was a good deal yesterday, isn't a good deal today.

Once you put that prism on the matter, things do change. The whole business with Russia for example. Before election it suited Trump to suggest he was sympathetic to Russia. Now - it doesn't. And if that has upset Putin - well the cost of doing business.

I think the same is true of Israel. Hence their scrabble to have some sort of deal before he decided it was better for his prospects of a Nobel Peace Prize to intervene in a different way.

Since he's now lining up for a third term, it's not a bad idea to learn how to deal with him, rather than just go Yah Boo from the sidelines.

Starmer already gave Trump a look in on Chagos?

I can easily see a headline about "Trump negotiates Chagos solution" which is basically stuck on top of what has already been done. We get what we wanted. He gets what he wants. Job is - as they say - a good'un. If it makes the Tory party look a bit silly and disorganised, well, that's a shame.

If I were St. Kemi, I would try and be very quiet right now about anything to do with UK-US relations. It's unlikely to look good for her. And as for Truss, Braverman and the other frozen out inauguration attendees ....

@SerendipityJane - he doesn't need one as much as he would like one.

A lot of attention is focused on goods in trade deals. That's not really where the money is for the UK or the US. The money for us and them is in services trade, and digital trade, and making agreements on light regulation of that. We are a services driven economy.

I get people dislike Trump, but the thing is economically he is likely to do better than Biden. The US has the highest growth rate in the G7. That is Starmer's target for us!

Contrast that with the EU. We have no services deal with them. One is not imminent. The EU are taking their time to sue us about sand eels and insisting on a youth mobility pact. They are making fish a condition of any agreement to even discuss. All public, all stupid.

Starmer will not want to deal with them because of the Farage factor. The EU publicly is still insisting on things which they must know are politically unpalatable to Starmer. I think they are idiots. Trump on the other hand is all smiles and a quick deal. No conditions.

Btw I suppose I should add I don't believe Trump on his tariff threats. That's just something he said to see what the world will offer him.

Very effective negotiator, Trump.

This is a load of nonsense! He is already damaging the US economy, and it's going to get far worse.

There is no deal to be done with the US as chlorinated chicken and the NHS would both be absolute requirements, and I trust Starmer not to sell us out on either of those.

It is not nonsense. The US has already indicated that it would meet requirements of the UK on foodstuffs to exclude chlorinated chicken and beef with hormones.

Why is it wrong to point out this stuff here? The EU are being massive prats. They are suing us over sand eels fgs. Their public position on negotiations is exactly what I put below.

What was agreed before, and what Trump decides he (and his supporters) want are two very different things...

Okay. That doesn't mean he will take any account of them.

Government negotiators negotiate with other governments. Trump's last presidency negotiated with the UK. A lot was done.

It was Biden who stopped it.

This country is not in a position to be ultra picky about trade. No other country is, or considers that the domestic situation in the US is a reason not to deal with them.

We will continue to deal with them, but I hope that even in their desperate attempts not to "betray" Brexit they won't destroy our chances of a better deal with the EU.

Maybe the EU should stop publicly insisting on certain things happening before they even talk to us. Things that if they thought about it, they would know would mean a UK PM would struggle to justify domestically. They are tin eared about that and always were.

For example. Sand eels. The UK is being sued by the EU for restricting fishing of these. We cite environmental reasons to preserve our birdlife. The EU want them to feed their pigs.

Practically they are more hostile to us than Trump.