Thread 15 Starmer - Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5244293-thread-14-starmer-the-starmeristas-strike-back?page=40&reply=141334312

A bit like just getting an evening invitation to a wedding? Bet they love that.

Ellwood proves that there is no such thing as a moderate Tory

Wonder who is paying for them to be in Washington. Ellwood and Truss are unemployed aren't they?

Unemployed and unemployable.

Can we just get back to the right to vote for British who have lived overseas for a certain number of years. I thought the opposite was the case - had those all been allowed a vote in the Referendum we may never have had Brexit in the first place?

It is pretty undemocratic to strip your own citizens of a right to vote.

Switzerland, with its absolute democracy, values the Swiss abroad. They even have some representation now and they all get to vote in every referendum, online now. Now that is democracy for you.

People who live overseas can vote. The rules changed (just in time for the 2024 GE, funny that).

I can still vote in Dutch elections, and do, despite having lived in the UK.for coming up 28 years.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jan/20/wealth-of-worlds-billionaires-grew-by-2tn-in-2024-report-finds?

Anna Marriott, the Oxfam inequality policy lead called on the UK government to prioritise economic policies that bring down inequality, including higher taxation of the super-rich.

Lots of pro-Trump posters on MN today, I see.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/are-you-eligible-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum

Those who had lived overseas for more than 15 years including in EU countries were not allowed to vote in the Referendum. It is probably why Brexit got through in the first place!

To be expected, strong correlation with the anti Starmer, free speech Leon and it's not far right to be worried about immigration posters

It's their big day today!!

bigly!

Shame about the small crowd size.....

Tbh if you re out of the UK for that length of time, why should you have a vote in UK elections?

Relying on people to swing a result who have been that detached from the UK is a weak strategy, if you re not invested in the UK, i don't really see why you should have a vote.

Also, around 620k votes would have been needed to change the result... how many people living long term out of the UK would have voted at all?

When you are a citizen of a country, why should your vote be taken away? I have deliberately not naturalised because I would lose my Dutch citizenship if I did and frankly, that burgundy passport is more valuable than a UK one. My country recognises me as one of its people and allows me representation in its affairs. Why do you think that is wrong?

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/how-do-countries-around-the-world-deal-with-overseas-voters/

It is a lot of voters! I reckon most would have voted in the Brexit referendum had they been able to.

Of course all British citizens should always have a right to vote. It is a fundamental pillar of a functioning democracy. Another example of where the British are going very wrong and how political parties here keep changing it to suit their agenda.

Well i think to have a say in ones country, you need to have a vested interest in that country, if you choose to live elsewhere for 15 years, i think you no longer have a stake in your country of origin.

I live in Cornwall but for many years lived away, inc times abroad, should i have been allowed a vote in Cornwalls council or Parish elections?

I'm not talking about people who work abroad for months at a time but people who make their home. perhaps work in another country for a very long period, which 15 years is.

Regarding the NHS, the state pension and immigration. All of these are inextricably linked.
If you have a functioning health care system, free at the point of delivery for all, then obviously your state pension need not be as high as in other countries, where healthcare in old age is largely self funded.
If you suddenly have a younger generation of workers who believe that there will be no NHS left nor a state pension when it comes to their turn, you have a huge problem on your hands. Ignore it at your own peril, as a society. Because only those trapped on lower wages will stay the course for that one.

Regarding immigration, half of the NHS workforce in some areas are immigrants. On the other hand, the UK precisely remains a destination for many migrants only because there is free health care from day 1. If most other countries do not offer that and have a contribution based system, then obviously there is an incentive to immigrate to the UK.

The UK doesn't offer free healthcare to migrants, you need to self fund or pay a levy.

Should the same argument be made for the Indyref? I remember my Glaswegian Cardiff-living boss being very annoyed that he couldn’t vote - his would have been a ‘Yes’ - despite not living in Scotland for years.
(He voted Leave in 2016 which I could never get my head around).

The chant "No taxation without representation" should possibly cut both ways though ?

By all means if you are paying UK tax then you should have a UK vote. However how does that apply to (the many) cunts like Oakenshott who has left the UK to specifically avoid paying UK tax ?

This isn't a suggestion we should have a poll tax. However there should be an either/or about it. Either you live in the UK and pay your taxes as required. Or you do not live in the UK but pay UK taxes to maintain your vote.

Otherwise, without intervention, you could end up with more people outside the UK voting than in the UK.

It's a complex subject. Exacerbated by the unequal power of countries. The US (for example) makes it's citizens pay US tax wherever they are. But then who is going to argue with them ?

The recent Muskmania has highlighted how someone with fuck all stake in the UK appears to be able to just buy influence. Which is not ideal.

The 15 year rule has been abolished. British citizens abroad now have the right to vote regardless of how long that have live away from the UK.

“No taxation without representation" should possibly cut both ways though

You read my mind. I was thinking exactly the same thing.

@Alexandra2001 - yes OK the migrant visa levy, but it is quite cheap compared to healthcare in countries with a private healthcare system. It is more like the French levy in amount (where the healthcare system is heavily subsidised by the state).

Regarding immigration, I think we have benefitted massively from this, but I do believe we are in an era of mass international migration and it is only going to get worse with climate change. And obviously some poorer people reliant on the state and limited resources, are worried there won’t be enough left over for them and some rich people are exploiting that fear, for their own personal gain (monetary and power).

It seems the electorate is very concerned about it and would like the State to control it better. With only those allowed in who directly benefit the country long term (NHS, care - although the latter should be queried because it is unskilled, rich people who create jobs and actually pay taxes, teachers etc). The discussion around how to manage that is incredibly complex in a system where we are all used to a certain amount of universal benefits and sharing with each other.

I guess the key question is how much state control people are willing to sign up to, is it not?