Different cultures approach after birth?

[Cornecopia]

Good morning guys. Following on from a thread I read earlier it has got me thinking…. A lady was upset that there hadn’t been much help after her baby had been born, ie people offering to clean her home/cooking her meals etc.
one comment said that the way people in England do things is ‘bordering on torterous’ meaning we are expected to have the baby, carry on as normal with minimal help from family and friends. I personally have 3DCs and had very little help from anyone when they were babies-but I didn’t expect it either (apart from their father of course)
this had me wondering how do other cultures do things?

My DH is South Asian, my MIL came over for 1 month after each birth and she comes every summer to help over the long holidays. She lives in Europe not the UK.

But after my first was born my very English friend had a food shop ordered for me with loads of great nibbles and meals from M&S. she was not close by so I imagine this was the equilivant of dropping over a home cooked meal.

There certainly is less support in English families from what I see compared to Asian families but that can come at a cost. My DH and his sister love all the support when needed but they hate the meddling and control that can exist within their culture.

Equally though my elderly mother lives with us and needs our support, now I do wonder if my DH were not south Asian if this would be acceptable. I do think his cultural ethos of looking after your own has meant that my mother has been able to avoid going into a nursing home.

I agree with you about misogyny in healthcare. If antibiotics gave men thrush, they’d have solved the problem by now!

Bit it’s important to remember that most new mums aren’t discharged to their own devices. They have partners who should be stepping up to provide support. Hospitals are an expensive place just to have a kip. That can be done at home with dad doing everything a nurse would do to make sure mum rested.

Omg thrush, I had it almost permanently whilst pregnant!

And yes totally agree about partners ofc!!! Let's be real, women still do the vast majority of childcare. Some men are great, but a lot do the absolute bare minimum they can get away with it!

It's not so much misogyny as an underfunded NHS. When I gave birth in 1980 it was normal to stay in hospital for 10 days after a first baby. You rested in bed and had nurses on hand to help with breathing feeding etc.

It was also a women only space except at visiting time. When I heard on MN about men staying on the ward at night with their partners I was shocked. Apparently it's necessary now but I would have hated it having strange men around all night.

My MIL took a week off work, travelled 300 miles and paid for a hotel to come to us for a week to look after our older daughter so that my DH could be with me during my c section. My dad took the following week off work to drive us around so that my older DD could still do things whilst I couldn't drive. He also came and picked me up at 7am on a Saturday morning to take me to the hospital to be checked over, waited in the car park for 3 hour (apparently being in the obstetricians with your adult DD is gong too far haha) and then drove me home again.

Difference is, we do the same for them. Took time off work for both them and their husbands/wives when needed, travelled long distances so that they didn't need to get trains to hospital appointments with specialists etc

Whilst no one moved in to help, we knew they were there for whatever we needed, whenever we needed it

Thank you xx

There is a thread trending right now about grandparents offering to take care of a 9 month old baby, which the poster feels is overstepping boundaries. ( I don't understand this at all) Then there are other threads about GPs never offering help. Everybody appears to have different ideas about support.

I think GPs have it hard!

@dwg12 , no difference here! We've helped and not received any help in return. It's very one sided in their favour. There was once an offer of help which turned into a hosting situation at a big inconvenience to us. I'm sure it's a very familiar story to many our age.

Remember to also read the thread where the mother is complaining about her father giving her child a cake and the other one where a mother is complaining about grandparents wanting to babysit overnight.

"apparently being in the obstetricians with your adult DD is gong too far haha"

Well in the consultation room, yes, but the waiting area or the canteen?
3 hrs in the car, bless him!

Yeah but that thread the grandparents are wanting to take baby away overnight. A lot of these cultural supporting examples are coming and helping mum while she is with her baby. Vastly different.

I had no problems with gp taking baby overnight at that age.
I dont view it as manipulative or sneaky or controlling.

Last month I was sent home from hospital with pneumonia and antibiotics. I'm my husband's carer so all the advice about resting was pretty useless as he still needed care. I was disappointed that we didn't even get a call from the surgery as they are always sending me messages about attending carers events so they know the situation.

I'm not convinced about the support you get for other conditions but that doesn't mean new mothers shouldn't get help.

And the one where mum didn’t like grandad playing with the children and told granny off for it!

I missed that one...

@Gwenhwyfar that's not really what happened though. DGM was taking liberties with DHC, following a most likely traumatic childhood due to parental abuse for her DD. Step DGF was behaving in a way that DD didn't like and DGM wouldn't bring it up with him so DD drew a very understandable boundary.

What kind of rubbish are parents supposed to put up with in order to get some support??

So you allowed it at a time that was comfortable to you. All that OP is saying is she wants the same. To do when she is comfortable.

wow Madness. I’d love a child free night

I have a new baby, my partner was at home with us for 1.5 weeks before returning to work and did everything around the house. After that, my mum booked afternoons off work to spend time with us. I didn't need help or to nap, so we went out, visiting family, to a museum, an aquarium, for food, to play group, for coffee etc. She did offer to help wash pots, tidy/clean but my partner was doing whatever I didn't get done when he got home from work and he also does all of the cooking anyway, so we didnt need that kind of help. She did bring me lunch which was helpful. My nana comes once a week with lunch for me and offered to help out with house upkeep or to mind the baby while I napped/bathed but I was fine, so we all spent time together. My dad works 4 days a week so he comes on his day off, brings me lunch and we go to a playgroup together. My baby is now 12 weeks and my parents are extremely involved, they see him most days (not for everyone but I love it) We've left him with them twice to go for meals out for 1-2 hours, they adore him. I do the night shifts and at the weekend my partner takes him down at his last wake up while I sleep and if the baby wakes at 6am or so in the week he'll take him for an hour before he has to get ready for work.

I really am lucky and wish everyone could get the support they deserve x

This is lovely, what a great family x

I'm in the Middle East and it's very different for a lot of people here. A lot of my friends couldn't believe I wasn't having at least my mum over to stay (she still works full time!), any night nurses or any confinement time. My friend who is Thai spent 40 days "confined" post birth- she rested, ate nutritious foods, had her mum and auntie looking after her and her baby etc. lots of popular services here for things like "closing the bones" massages post birth.

What I learnt after having my DCs is that basically it's all on you. It's not all bad though - before DC, I was quite a quiet person but motherhood has really toughened me up and I have no issue nowadays telling people to fuck off if I have to.

I know you asked about different cultures and approaches, OP, but I'd say my experiences are pretty typical of British culture in relation to how new mothers are treated. I was left alone for most of my DC1's birth, vomiting and in agony with no pain relief, because I'd had the temerity to go into labour during the middle of the night when they were short on staff. It took them an hour to stitch me up afterwards because I was shaking uncontrollably due to the shock and the doctor doing it asked me grumpily to keep still. I couldn't get up during the night (severe blood loss, drip and catheter) and, when I couldn't wake my husband up to pass me the baby (happily snoring in a chair), I resorted to throwing a bag of haribo at his head. He was cross but it did the trick. I think I was served one meal in two days.

I was better prepared for baby no 2 and arrived at hospital with 6 partially frozen bottles of water, a tonne of haribo, some cereal bars, a thermal blanket and some thermal bed socks. I carried most of this into hospital myself because DH disappeared off for half an hour to clarify the parking restrictions and my contractions were already quite close together so I didn't want to wait for the arse. Despite high blood pressure issues and severe blood loss again, I was discharged the next morning due to a shortage of beds and was back to making my DC's packed lunch for nursery the next day, which he was glad about because apparently DH had fucked it up the day before. My mother, who had been minding DC1 while we were at the hospital overnight, left that afternoon to go back to work (she lives 4 hours away from us).

I didn't bother going to my 6 week postnatal check at the GPs for DC2. It was a bloody waste of time the first time around - completely perfunctory and no one gave a toss how I was feeling. I'd just got warm and comfortable on the sofa with the baby sleeping and a box of chocolates and there's no way I was moving for what passes for "care" for new mothers.

@ChateauMargaux

"The Utopian idea of the village that supports families with new borns is based on unwritten contracts between the villagers and the families where grandparents gave up their jobs / businesses / houses to help the next generation"

This is indeed Utopian. I'm nearly 70 years old and never knew anyone's parents who gave up gave up their jobs, houses or businesses to help out with a new born or the next generation. For a start, people didn't have that much money or assets years ago and certainly weren't in a position to give away the roof over their heads. Giving houses/assets and large lump sums of cash to adult children is way more prevalent now, in particular to avoid IHT etc, and because a lot of baby boomers are in a good position. Parents may very well have given a job or partnership to their son/daughter in the family business but they wouldn't dream of chucking the business in to take care of grandchildren. Help from your parents for most people in my day was very limited. Many women didn't work so you'd probably get help from your mum/MIL with a new baby for the first month but generally you were expected to cope, just as they had. There is far, far more financial help and childcare offered from grandparents these days.

Everyone has their boundaries. And I shouldnt make this a TAAT so....

I am just saying if you view every move by GPs as deeply suspicious and controlling, why would they want to come and cook for you or clean your loos?

It is also interesting to observe changes in care... from 10 days in hospital, taking babies away to the nursery at night (where they cried all night until they learned to sleep) to getting women up and about within hours and home asap. There is good evidence that moving prevents blood clots, but the traditional laying in after birth included massage and leg movements by the female companions. Sometimes we need to have better understanding of the old traditions before we discard them.