Different cultures approach after birth?

[Cornecopia]

Good morning guys. Following on from a thread I read earlier it has got me thinking…. A lady was upset that there hadn’t been much help after her baby had been born, ie people offering to clean her home/cooking her meals etc.
one comment said that the way people in England do things is ‘bordering on torterous’ meaning we are expected to have the baby, carry on as normal with minimal help from family and friends. I personally have 3DCs and had very little help from anyone when they were babies-but I didn’t expect it either (apart from their father of course)
this had me wondering how do other cultures do things?

this had me wondering how do other cultures do things?

Well, I’m in Australia and everyone I know expected their DH to step up. My kids were born before paternity leave came into effect here but everyone I know back then had DH’s take some leave. Nowadays they get paid paternity leave here so no excuse not to be able to do essential household chores and cook a nightly meal while mum recovers/establishes feeding etc. It’s really odd, as from threads in Mumsnet doesn’t seem that is expected in UK, but rather he should sit there and look at other people coming in to do this for him. I’d be completely embarrassed if that was my sons and wonder where in fuck we went wrong!

Paternity leave's just a couple of weeks in many countries, where it exists at all.

In my MN experience (Not my own experience) women only go back to work part time even after the children are at school. They retire early from work to help care for their ageing parents. Note they don't help their husband's ageing parents 'not my circus'. The husband is is expected to work full time in order to pay for his wife to stay at home and leave his elderly parents to cope as best they can.
This is all born out statistically. Women retire earlier and they are economically inactive earlier than men. Men are still expected to financially support their wives even though the wives are statistically likely to live longer.
No doubt there will be posters with anecdotal evidence to the contrary but statistically women choose not to work outside the home far more frequently than men.
it is so annoying to read on here about the halcyon imaginary days when women never financially contributed. Working class women have always worked. I retired from full time teaching in my mid sixties. I spent the last six years doing a lot of childcare ( four days a week) and I still do a small amount of casual teaching on the fifth day. My experience is anecdotal but very similar to lots of my contemporaries. Forty odd years ago I complained about the lack of mums at NCT coffee mornings because they had all returned to work. It was harder then with fewer nurseries and no government help. Yet some posters seem to think that motherhood is new and much harder now.

Few grandmother's nowadays would be able to help as mentioned above. This generation of grandparents, unless pretty sorted with high private pensions, will need to work until they are 67 or 68.

I think my main issue is that the idea that mothers should just get on with it without moaning and just grin and bare it, is inherently rooted in misogyny.

Think of a C-section. There is no other major operation where you would be discharged 24 hours later and sent home sleep deprived to provide 24/7 care for a newborn baby. You can expect more support for a broken leg. I had a section 3 months ago and haemorrhaged. I was very weak and unwell after birth, whilst desperately trying to establish breastfeeding. I passed out twice and could not keep my eyes open mid conversation, but staff still wanted to discharge me the following day, when I was in no state to care for a newborn at home. I couldn't even hold her safely as I was constantly falling asleep! I imagine it's the same for women who have had traumatic births, or women who have laboured 3 days.

Women go through major surgery or birth and are given no time to heal and get a full night's sleep in hospital, which in my opinion would go a long way towards helping new mothers cope. Women are so vulnerable post-partum due to the shock to your body, and the change to your hormones. A prolonged period of hospital or community support to help with baby would go a long way in helping.

It's not about families individually so much as how society treats women who have gone through a significant medical event. If men could give birth, I guarantee you things would look different in terms of support and discharge home.

On an individual level, we'd all visit someone elderly with reduced mobility and offer to do some pots and make a drink, but apparently it's unreasonable for mothers who may have experienced tears or surgical intervention to expect the same? Please. It's just basic human decency. But women's pain and health conditions unique to women are not taken seriously.

Paternity leave's just a couple of weeks in many countries, where it exists at all

Yep, and enough time to get them into the swing of taking over essential household chores. Again, I’d be beyond mortified if any of my sons couldn’t step up and take over essential running of a household in such ch a situation.

My DM and MIL are both mid 60s still working 4 days a week. My kids are tweens/teens so absoloutley no "available" mothers to help me, but it's fine as my husband did it.

I have recently re read 'Family From One End Street', Eve Garnett. It won the Carnegie prize for the best children's book in 1937 (only the second time it was awarded). It was praised for being about working class family. The Dad is a Dustman, the Mum runs her own laundry (so did my grandma). There are seven kids and they go to work with mum until they go to school.
No state help, they were typical of lots of families then. It is a wonderful book and it is still in print. Those posters complaining about how hard it is to cope with two or three children should read it. It is typical family life in the 1930s, not the imaginary time when women stayed at home all day. Not a whiff of self pity about their lives. They were a typical family.

I think this is just the completely inadequate NHS rather than particular attitudes towards women. I've lived in multiple different countries across the world prior to moving to the UK and it's only in the UK that you get discharged the day after a c section. I agree it's ridiculous but expecting friends/family to step up is not the answer (other than the baby's father obviously!) There needs to be better maternity care in this country (and a different healthcare system) but in terms of the 'village', it no longer applies in most modern societies for the reasons mentioned in other posts, and in cultures where extended family is more involved, you need to accept the unsolicited advice and different parenting styles along with the help, which a lot of people in the UK don't seem willing to do (because 'boundaries') judging by a lot of the posts on MN.

My parents were dead and my dh’s mum had early Alzheimer’s when my kids were born, so did everything ourselves. My dh took a week off for each, then it was up to me. I found it fine, tbh. I was lucky enough to live in a nice suburb with plenty going on for new parents and parks and activities for babies/toddlers. I got them into a routine and took them out every day. This was a massive help-living in a nice area which was baby friendly and easy to meet other parents. Far more helpful than washing up imo.
We don’t live the same lives as those in previous generations-our homes are full of Labour saving devices like washing machines, dishwashers and hoovers take care of a lot of drudgery. Hell, we don’t even have to have soaking nappies if we don’t want to. So I find this idea of ‘help’ a bit superfluous-in the old days, I’d say it was extremely beneficial. But it doesn’t take hours to put the hoover round and stack the dishwasher. We had plenty of visitors in the first few weeks-wouldn’t have dreamt of asking them to hoover-they came to see the baby!

I’m glad I’m not from a culture where in laws descending to help/living with the new parents is the norm. Would drive me round the bend.
(Of course, I might well fell differently had I been born into that culture).

Wow a year!!

I come from an English culture but my dh is North African.

His mum really, really looked after me. Telling me to lay down, get some rest. She cooked for me got the baby to sleep. Made a big deal about me not doing to much and that I need to sleep and eat and recuperate. Visitor’s would pass by but not stay for long and would give similar advice about resting. She would say that if I did too much straight away it would make me weaker in the long term and that the first few months I have to take it easy.

I will always remember that. We have had our ups and downs but the way she looked after me without being asked and took it as her duty basically. I think she knew my mum wouldn’t do it. My mum visited me after she had finished work, stayed for a bit and then left.

My DH was also very helpful and looked after me. I remember him picking up my dirty pads and towels and not complaining. You really see how people are when you are at your weakest.

I know someone who coped with being a single mum by taking her son to work with her at the hospital where she was a nurse. This wouldn't be allowed now.

Exactly this. Just because the husband goes back to work after two weeks doesn't mean he is incapable of cooking, cleaning and helping with whatever else needs doing when he's not at work. When mine were babies neither of us slept much for the first year, we didn't have any family help but we just got on with it, like millions of others have to do if they decide they want kids.

In my African culture mothers are very supported for the first 3 months, sometimes more e.g. if twins. When I had my DC my mother, then mother in law and sisters moved in to help in shifts of 2-3 weeks. They did all cleaning, cooking, shopping and helped with the baby (changing, night feeds, bathing). I was expected to rest, recover, breastfeed/express milk and bond with my baby.

They also told me it was important to spend time alone with my DH so would take the baby out for walks in the evenings so we could have an hour alone every day. It was brilliant! I also had time to visit the hairdresser, do my yoga and Pilates classes and get back to feeling normal because I had lots of sleep and people I could trust with the baby for a few hours while I focused on myself. It was also very helpful especially with my first having more experienced hands to help me in the first few weeks when everything felt strange and new. My DC are also now very close to both their grandmothers and aunts which is lovely. I hope to do the same for my DD if they have children, and my sisters when their time comes.

Yes that though crossed my mind too. Why does the mother need help IF dh is home. If he’s at work then yeah I get it. But if he’s there why on earth do others need to cook and clean

My Pakistani friend left for her parents house straight after having the baby at hospital. She wasn't allowed to lift even a finger for 40 days. Her mum and female relatives took turns to cook and wake up with the baby at night, all she had to do was feed. They also had someone visit the house to give my friend 'putting your body back' massages by someone from Pakistan who knew what to do- I can only assume this was some sort of recovery massage? She also ate a special diet of warming foods to allow her body to produce milk and heal- things that included lots of nuts and seeds and healing spices. At the end of the 40 days, her mum dropped her back to her house and stayed for a week until she got into a routine with the baby with her husband and then left. I was massively jealous.

Jeeze the cheek of it

Tbh I think even in 'british ' culture, mom's were helped more a century or so back.
I don't think today's problem (of not helping) is necessarily cultural.
More practical.
Woman didn't work as much back in the day. Even if she did paid work it was oftentimes in the house, ie laundry etc.
So a gm was available to help
/ Pop in. Multigenerational living was also more common.
Today gm aren't available as they work.
And again in African /asian cultures where (as clearly seen upthread) gm supply more support, it's is also more common that these women don't work outside the home

When I had my DC my mother, then mother in law and sisters moved in to help in shifts of 2-3 weeks. They did all cleaning, cooking, shopping and helped with the baby (changing, night feeds, bathing). I was expected to rest, recover, breastfeed/express milk and bond with my baby.

And what did the men do to help?

Yes, I agree.

I had the option to do this as same culture as you but I would have hated it.

I vastly preferred being in my own house, being supported by my husband, being able to do things my way

But I didn't then whinge about a lack of support

The men went to work

And after work?

At weekends?

What did they do to help?

@NotThisAgainSeriously

And how did they manage their own work, finances or lives whilst they were doing this