Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

[CurlewKate]

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

Obviously, I bow down to the fact that you are blackhowever There are two major differences between drag and blackface. One, "woman" isn't a culture, or even a cultural signifier. Race and skin color are. Second, blackface is considered socially unacceptable because of the American history of minstrel shows, which were created specifically to entertain white people at the expense of black people. They were, quite literally, supposed to be racist, and they very much were.

The problem with this take is that it overlooks who is making the commentary and how it is being made. It boils down to men ridiculing women - people are bound to have different views on whether this is funny/appropriate or not. To characterise objection as 'bigoted' is ridiculous.

I can't think of any other group with a history of oppression where the oppressor draws upon extreme stereotypes for laughs. Why is this the case?

It is misogynistic and offensive. That's why. From the names, to the clothes, to the make up, the whole thing is a fucked up, male piss take of women. This is what they think of us. It's just more male hatred in sequins and slap and we're supposed to accept it.

It is so far from what it used to be, which was a gentle mickey take, think Les Dawson, Widow Twankey, even Lily Savage etc. Now it is overtly offensive and as for the whole DQSH, tell me how that is appropriate for young children?

Perfect articulation of my feelings

I hate drag and switch off immediately.
It’s offensive to women, and there are so many safeguarding double standards when it comes to things like DQST.

For example a well know drag queen who reads stories to children has photos on his public FB page which in a normal situation would mean he is deemed unsuitable to work with children, but in clown world it’s all fine (iirc a teacher was sacked for a FB photo holding a pint of beer? Another was sacked for doing a photo shoot wearing short shorts).

Just like with anything touched by queer progressiveness nowadays the double standards and the ignoring of normal safeguards is downright bizarre and should be enough for all parents to question why this sort of inclusion is pushed more and more, even when it’s clear that it’s rolling back acceptance for LGBTQ+ because so many are sick of having it shoved down their throats and lectured to so much.

This isn’t about feelings you cannot go around calling a group of people perverts because you are claiming that they are potential sex abuse that is not an opinion that is actually attacking a group of people for false claims. This isn’t about feelings you are aligning a group of people calling them perverts it’s always been said that gay people are going to abuse children. It’s the biggest thing that has been said for years. Can you not see that?

It is womanface.

If you want to pretend that women aren't oppressed then you're not living in reality. Women are still being stoned to death and set fire to all round the world. Honor killings and violence happen in this country, so does FGM, and horrific rates of domestic violence.

Drag isn't art, it's the deliberate mocking of women by members of the sex class that oppress them.

I hope drag is consigned to the dustbin of history
I just (re) watched the programme about Caroline Aherne. Her Mrs Merton interview with Bernard Manning was genius ('Bernard, who do you vote for now Hitler's dead?'). It's a masterclass in how to say 'your brand of repulsive comedy is over' without actually saying 'your brand of repulsive comedy is over'.

Have you got a dictionary, look up the definition, it describes them perfectly.
I find them deeply offensive and they have no place on a family show.

well said

No, it does not describe them perfectly. I do not believe that every drag queen are a bunch of sex abusing perverts sorry but I don’t if you think that then something is wrong with yourself.

But why the need for a man in a dress & makeup reading to a small child? How does this benefit the child?

///

Ahhh see apparently this was to show children how society is diverse and how inclusive and progressive we are by showing artists from all occupations and/or oppressed groups

In reality it would be more helpful for them to see in this context, say a lesbian plumber. Or a teacher with a disability.

But I don't think these occupations or oppressed groups are as fun and colourful on instagram

Have not read the whole thread but am interested to understand what is funny about Drag. Is it the character they are presenting that is funny or is it the fact that they are presenting as an exaggerated woman that you find funny? I know what people find funny can be hard to explain but would love to understand more.

Sometimes a male actor dressing as a female feels like that actor trying to represent a character they knew (albeit exaggerated) and that character could be funny. But sometimes (mostly?) the male actor seems to be relying on the fact that they are dressed as a female in an exaggerated way to be the source of the humour. And that doesn't seem very funny to me but comedy is like that. It either makes you laugh or it doesn't.

Katherine Hepburn wore trouser suits, she was still being a woman. She fought for good roles for women, for financial independence and against the casting couch.
At no time was Katherine Hepburn a crude parody of a man.

But this is exactly what I’m saying. Personally I don’t perceive it as men ridiculing women, I perceive it as men ridiculing the expectations that are placed on women to look a certain way.

Why is it ok to dress up as women but not as a minstrel?

There are two major differences between drag and blackface. One, "woman" isn't a culture, or even a cultural signifier. Race and skin color are. Second, blackface is considered socially unacceptable because of the American history of minstrel shows, which were created specifically to entertain white people at the expense of black people. They were, quite literally, supposed to be racist, and they very much were.

And they never will explain either of those.

Of course the obvious answer is that they deem it perfectly acceptable due to misogyny and sexism to 'take the piss' out of women and the supporters of that will never admit it.

@Abbyk1980 and you think drag is not intended to be a poke at women?

Absolutely this.
Women in Afghanistan literally have no voice. Women in Iran and many other places have no rights.
Increasingly societies are regressing and women have to fight to be heard. Some young man stuffing a bra, wearing lipstick and teetering on heels is neither progressive, inclusive, nor particularly creative.

This 'woman face' is derogatory and offensive reducing women to an insulting stereotype. I rolled my eyes back into my head watching SCD last night. Of course Tayce was going to win

You are joking, right? I went reluctantly to a drag queen bingo for a charity event. The whole night the drags were going on about having an itchy minge..yeast infection. Kept saying their back hurt because of their tits. One even kept telling us he/she was “on the blob” and that they’d passed a blood clot when then someone screamed bingo. Kept talking about their ‘muff’. Stuff like that. None mentioned housework or mental load or gender pay gaps, ironically. The language used was vile. They’re vile. All of them.

I don’t think it is deemed as an attack on women no I don’t see it personally as an attack sometimes I see it is a bit of flattery a bit of humour. I don’t look too deep into it. I don’t think it bothers me.

Benny Hill was the 1980s, 40 year old men would only have been born then. I remember an uncle watching him 🤢 and he’s in his early 70s now.

Also I find it’s more women and gay men who like drag.

@BeAzureAnt
As to the fish comments…eh, jokes as old as time. I’m female, and just not offended by it. Men are portrayed as insensitive oafs or ruled by their sexual urges in comedy too
There's no comparison.
The fishy references are cultural attitudes not passing comments.