Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

[CurlewKate]

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

I don't think there's much skill and artistry. It's just dressing up as a crude parody of a woman.

They call a group of women a seafood platter - that's because they admire women so much.

I just never found them funny. Dame Edna’s voice in particular was like nails on a blackboard. It’s possibly just not for me but I don’t really see the appeal. There’s lots of really talented, funny, people who don’t need to shimmy into a dress to be entertaining.

Absolutely. We will look back and cringe.

On your last point, I didn’t mean to imply that old school female impersonators challenged gender stereotypes and I agree they reflected their sexist times. I was clumsily trying to say that in real life I’ve never had a problem with men wearing make up etc - there’s one on the make up counter at a local shop and he totally rocks it. He’s not in drag thoug.

I've only been to two drag shows and most of them were not funny except the one drag queen who has an alter ego who is much more like a woman not a parody, cruel and crude.

But the overarching problem with the BBC is that they let predators rule for so long so they are swinging back the other way and they've got history of taking something or someone that is popular and then beating us over the head with it until we are sick of it.

All the talk of ‘being who I am’ really grates on me, most of us don’t need to dress in a certain way to have a personality to - if I’d been born a 200 years ago I’d still be me if I had to walk around in a Victorian dress rather than jeans and a t-shirt.

it was obviously set up for Tayce to win.

Good grief, I don’t think it’s that deep.

Just saw this thread, it absolutely ruined the show for me, it’s supposed to be family entertainment and they have totally lowered the bar. I for one do not want to watch men dressed up as women cavorting about and being totally offensive. Kai even called him ‘she’ it’s a man and will always be a man, keep these perverts off our screens, and give them their own tv channel but stop keep plonking them under our noses. It ruined the show for me I’m sick of the lowering of standards on tv.

On reflection, drag acts are adult entertainment. Featuring one on a family show on Christmas day is a bit inappropriate IMO.

Drag Queen storytime at libraries is shocking and shouldn't be allowed. Remember the fuss about Caba Baba Rave? They shouldn't be involved in things aimed at children.

The old school drag acts Danny La Rue, Paul O’Grady, Les Dawson etc were always just men dressed up. We all knew this and therefore not offensive in my view. The acts you see now are pretending to be Women, offensively trying to be women. Awful names, being called ‘she’ over the top crude humour. If that floats your boat good for you. But it shouldn’t be available for children to watch. Strictly is supposed to be a family show.

I don't like drag either. Why don't I like it?
I just find it too 'loud' - I don't find the humour funny, it's too crude. I don't find it family friendly as it's just too sexualised for me. I don't find it attractive or particularly skilful. It just does not click with me one bit.

Some of this opinion has undoubtedly come from inheriting the small 'c' conservativism of my mum (like her I don't like tattoos, chewing gum, things she would associate with working class people) and I try my damnedest to question myself and ask am I just being a middle class snob?

Well, probably 80% of it is I am. But I just can't get myself to enjoy it, and there's plenty of things my mum thinks of as appalling that I embrace and love, especially around pop culture. So it's not just that.

I live/work in Brighton and there's a big scene here. I exist in a big group of queer friends with all kinds of labels and non-labels. They don't care I'm not into it, I don't express my opinion too strongly as there's no joy for anyone if I bang on with my own negative opinions - better to just pick up the conversation again when it falls to more common ground. We just laugh I'm a bit too much of a prude to enjoy it. They don't think of me as a bigot, they get that it just doesn't resonate.

I think some sort of drag will always be with us. Katherine Hepburn wore men’s suits. Women now wear tuxedo suits. Some men paint their nails and wear foundation. It is more subtle, but is still there.

As to the fish comments…eh, jokes as old as time. I’m female, and just not offended by it. Men are portrayed as insensitive oafs or ruled by their sexual urges in comedy too. Gender bending, gender wars have been subjects of comedy going back to the ancient Greeks.

They put Kai in makeup and a wig, and he was taught to strut about. He's a dancer, he knows how to perform. I found it patronising and stupid, as if Tayce was some sort of amazing performer and Kai needed to join in.

I really, really enjoy the costumes. Many queens make their own costumes too which I love! It's a fab expression of creativity. The wigs are often amazing as well.

I come from a theatre background so have seen how difficult it is to make and style wigs, as well as creating these amazing costumes. Also seeing a person completely transform when they get the costume on. How the makeup or wig can complete or destroy the look. It's transformational and it's amazing to see.

I don't care whether the person wearing them is male or female. I actually much prefer the costumes that are more androgynous, no fake boobs or warped shape, I think drag is heading in this direction a lot more these days.

I love dancing, I love comedy, I love creativity. That's why it appeals to me.

I hate a lot of the culture around it. Queens who clearly hate women or use the term "fishy" (though thankfully this is being used less and less). I don't like queens who think they are somehow better than women.

The BBC are absolutely obsessed with drag. Even to the point that they are inserted into news stories on the website; ‘Cost of living crisis? Let’s get the opinion of a drag queen’. Do a basic search of the news site and you can clearly see it.

On Mumsnet there has been an advertisement for months telling people to buy a TV licence with a picture of a drag queen with huge fake breasts.

And yes, there have been many cases of men who have abused children under the cover of being a ‘drag artist’ and in the USA even young boys have been put on stage in drag, dancing and thrusting their crotches at grown men who throw them money.

It’s vile and the BBC’s obsession with it is one of the reasons I no longer have a TV licence.

from the article posted earlier:

One BBC staffer says: “It’s become a running joke in the team, especially among Gen Z members. ‘We need more drag guests’. Israel? ‘Drag’. Brexit? ‘Drag’. Terrorism? ‘WHERE IS THE DRAG?’”

Many BBC licence fee payers now loathe drag after previously indulging it as slightly risqué humour.

I think that attitude is displayed here. when it was just something that popped up every so often you could roll your eyes and just think about something else. but now that it seems to be absolutely bloody everywhere, it's increasingly getting on many people's nerves.

But do you think that all drag should be banned because one drag artist has chosen a name that is crass and insensitive?

I'm not sure anyone here is saying drag should be banned.

However, our national broadcaster - paid for by us - is obsessed with it to the point of abject laziness. The BBC is also staffed overwhelmingly by activists who have ignored issues happening to women for years.

Put simply, I’m not sure why Benny Hill chasing semi clad young women around a field to the tune of yakety sax is now (quite rightly) considered outdated, sexist and inappropriate, but men dressed as an over exaggerated, vulgar, course humoured, mockery of women is considered an art form?

Incidentally, did anyone else find Craig Revel
Horwood and Anton Du Beke dressed as those Grady twins particularly inappropriate on the Halloween episode?

Why are you calling drag queens Perverts? I am very sorry but I find that deeply offensive. There is literally nothing to suggest that none of them are it’s such a very old trope.

I find it offensive. I find men mocking women just another way of men showing their hatred towards women. It’s old fashioned, misogynistic and about as funny as thrush.

Funny how men can dress up and pretend to be women, while mocking women, we’re supposed to accept that, but if a white person were to dress up as an Asian/black/swedish/any other race, it suddenly is offensive and ‘black face’ (I am black before anyone starts…).

It is women face. But we have to accommodate it and pretend it is funny because it’s ‘only’ women being mocked…

wtf?? This is shocking!!

just like the drag queen “Mama G” teaching little children how to twerk!

Wearing shit tonnes of make up and a frilly dress and telling a few jokes = an art form.

Really?!!!

I think it panders for the 40+ yr old men who miss Benny Hill.

And some people find drag queens deeply offensive.

I personally actually don’t. But the point remains. Are your feelings somehow more valid than theirs?