Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

[CurlewKate]

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

I don’t have a problem seeing a drag king I would summarise the issue is they just isn’t that many compared to drag queens and as in the name all I see it as rhyming slang to cole that’s what they do a lot of times they put their names as rhyming slang

if you are an able bodied person imitating somebody that doesn’t have privilege like a disabled person then that has crossed the line. Can you not see that?
Even a gay person doing it because they would have more privileged than disabled people because disabled people tend to be at the lowest of everything

What you mean like this @Abbyk1980 ?

Look at the quoted post for the image, I would sure love to hear your thoughts on this.

Yes, I've been asking that question about drag kings....

In Ireland, yes drag Kings appear on tv..

Of course they are. They harass and belittle gay men in much the same way as Alt Right men harass and belittle women.

Abuse isn’t always physical in nature.

Are you asking, what do I mean by that?

I've re read your post just to check, as I like to be fair and not misrepresent an argument.
What I would disagree with is the idea that these drag queens are doing this for women's right or to challenge the acceptable appearance, or otherwise, of women. You may think so, but I remain unconvinced.

I really dislike most of it as I don't it amusing or appealing in its own right and I hate all the peacock posing and pouting of the Drag Race style of drag. I'm not a fan of superficiality and a lot of modern drag seems all about that. And Drag Race strange mix of bitchiness and "womanly support", something which I find very unnerving.

I have no problem with someone with actual talent performing in drag, although sometimes I'm curious why they think it's necessary if it isn't part of their act/character like Lily Savage was. Loved Lily Savage, thought Conchita Wurst was amazing in Eurovision.

I have absolutely no idea of the appeal of someone in drag without any discernible talent miming to a song as in the cheap Benidorm type shows. And the names and jokes they sometimes use are distasteful and bordering on mysogyny rather than funny or clever. The Chubby Brown equivalent. I guess some people like that kind of thing though.

Take what is said on this forum in particular with a large pinch of salt.

A trans person would never come on here unless they were a glutton for punishment. Mumsnet is largely made up of a certain demographic, and in no way reflective of British society.

Brits are, generally speaking, decent folk. Don't be upset by those on here.

https://gcn.ie/ireland-talented-drag-kings/

An article on a few Irish Drag Kings

But it’s their character that is famous, not their own identity. Leigh Francis is famous as his character Keith Lemon and that is who appears on shows etc, if he appeared and acted like his true self it would not be the same.

I love drag and have no issue with some of the worries people have here. Many of the comments are inaccurate and not what I have witnessed at all. I completely accept it is not everyone’s cup of tea or humour, but it is not offensive to women or misogynistic. It’s empowering and artistic and a lot of the time, it is very cleverly thought out! I’m a feminist and feel strongly about women’s rights, drag does not threaten that.

I don't believe you. Some right wing women might disapprove of homosexuality but I don't believe there are hordes of right wing women openly behaving like this.

there does seem to be more of it on the BBC than there has been since the 70s, the last time mocking women for light entertainment was A-OK

You’re right, and I didn’t notice it creeping up till it was suddenly all around us. Why is parodying and mocking women suddenly acceptable again? And it seems much more sleazy these days.

Well I agree I don’t think that is the primary motivation but it’s still how I view the effect it has. Like I said, this is just my explanation of why I personally don’t find it offensive. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me.

"Well, I do hope that you are correct because this forum really upsets me that people would be so small minded to say things like five people have called them perverts disgusting"

Some people object to drag queens from a conservative stand point and wanting to uphold regressive stereotypes. These people consider cross dressing a 'perversion' and are likely to imagine that one perversion leads to another.

Other people object from a liberal point of view, whereby they think that people should be able to dress as they like and that ideas about male or female dress codes are regressive. These people are unlikely to make automatic inferences about perversion.

There is plenty of evidence of people using the 'queering agenda' to try and weaken safeguards put in place to protect the vulnerable. People highlighting this aren't bigoted, nor saying all drag artists are safeguarding risks. They point out the need to attend to the risks.

@Workingclasslass Oh here we go again what’s the problem with drag queens?

Yep, it must have been about a couple of weeks since the last drag bashing thread. Which is a bit of a record for MN..

I used to watch them but find them unfunny now. I don’t see the appeal at all.

Yes to this

I think the make up skills are one of the reasons why I find most drag queens creepy, to be honest. It's the same way I feel about most clowns.

I was on holiday in the Canaries once, and got chatting to the guy behind the bar, and got on really well with him. He mentioned that he was doing his drag act in the bar that night, so my friends and I decided to go. As soon as he appeared in full drag, I felt really, really creeped out and couldn't wait to get out of there.

I think the difference between the drag acts from a while back and now is that you knew and could see that they were a man dressed up - especially with someone like Barry Humphries, who also used to appear as Sir Les Patterson. You felt more that they were actors putting on a costume to play a part, iyswim. With the more modern drag queens, the makeup and costumes are so much more extreme, and I just find them catty, not funny, like I did with Lily Savage or Cissy & Ada, or even Hinge and Brackett. Perhaps if I went back and rewatched them I'd feel differently about them, I don't know.

In answer to the OP, the cynical side of me thinks it has been set up for Tayce to do the main show at some point.
Blu Lavender won DWTS Ireland, Courtney Act was a DWTS Australia finalist, Shangela was a DWTS US finalist.
In the UK The Vivienne did Dancing on Ice.
Many of the drag queens would do the Strictly main show for the initial 25K fee but this year with fewer women than men, it would have been more contentious.
And they will perform in drag with one routine where they wipe the make up off or one routine as a man, as that always gets tens. Rest of the time will be in drag as that's what they're known for. Same as if Dame Edna had ever been on.
I think at one point they were considering Mrs. Brown but he wanted to do the whole show as Mrs. Brown (think Wynn as Mrs. Doubt fire but every week. Would have been wearing).

So in short, with fewer sign ups, Tayce will be a main competitor. He is nicer than came over yesterday. Can't be paired with Kai again. That leaves Aljaz (too unfit, let's be honest) or JoJo (could be interesting).

Should Tayce have won yesterday?
The lift was incredible.
But Tamsin (also some dance experience) had the better routine. <gavel>

Well go and read about Ann Coulter as one example. There are many.

Your lack of belief just confirms to me that you’re so desperate to have your world view be correct you disregard anything that doesn’t agree with it. Tories do that too.

I love drag queens! I think it’s pure panto and for me although it is technically a man parodying a woman I read it more as gay/camp men poking fun at themselves and taking control of homophobic narratives. It’s like taking generations of abuse and belittlement, covering it in glitter and galloping round a field on it! I say this as a woman who loves to be mad at men for misogyny.

And women haven't?

Yes there have been drag kings on RPDR and drag kings / bio female drag queens on another show on channel 4 where a group of drag artists improved someone's life (can't remember what is called).

RuPaul rumours suggest he's not a fan of kings or bio queens and that allegedly stopped them being on his show so much... Which has a knock on effect as lots of TV drag stars launch on his show.

Why are they on reality TV maybe proportionally more than you'd expect?

My guess is because they have a TV profile, they are cheap to hire for those shows, they are usually good at adding comedy value / strong personality, RPDR has a big cult following so they will bring in different viewers, and they may tick a diversity box too.

No, I am asking for your thoughts on that Drag Queen parodying and mocking being disabled as part of their 'act'.

You are defending Drag to the hilt so are you going to defend this?

To me it is an inevitable trajectory - punch down on women so why not punch down on disabled women too - so very edgy and progressive.