Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

[CurlewKate]

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

Don't think it's as bad as it appears on here. Mumsnet is not a reflection of British society. The more extreme end are in here. The feminist board with posts eagerly awaiting the inauguration of Trump and right wingers intolerance towards transsexuals, in no way is this typical of your average Brit.

Britain is nowhere near as regressive as America. A Trump could never get elected here, yet if you only read Mumsnet posts you'd think he could.

Brits are far more open (it's the home of glam rock, of Bowie, of Rocky Horror, of the New Romantics and Boy George, none of these things could ever have come out of a more backward, regressive, puritanical society like America where religion is everyone's business and Bible thumping and guns are king).

This openness and tolerance is why Ellen has moved here.

I love drag queens gays and bi's.

None of that is the same as because drag queens are different they don’t class themselves as that they classed themselves as an act

That’s pretty much the crux of it. Their ignorance is just overwhelming. Someone said that within all the groups of oppression, women’s oppression is invisible because it’s just so widely accepted. Perfect summary.

I've never seen a drag king. Ever.

There's some really good ones on the Irish scene.

But do you know the per capita number? I really don’t know.

I've never heard of them. Do you think one would appear on Christmas Day Strictly?

Then why are they everywhere in character?

"I don’t know the answer to this but maybe you do - what rate are gay men killed in the UK by homophobic attacks? Curious how that looks against the 2-3 murders of women a week."

Gay men are killed by men, women are killed by men. Men are the problem.

Clearly, not all men are the problem, and if we were to create a sub group of men who aren't a problem, it wouldn't be reasonable to exclude straight men and include all gay men. Gay men also abuse and kill male partners

I'm not in Ireland. Do they appear on mainstream tv?

I just don't get the appeal of drag at all. My adult DDs love drag acts and I can see that there is great deal of skill and creativity in the make up and costumes but I find it misogynistic. Why not use all that skill and creativity to make themselves stunning looking 'alt' men rather than caricatures of women?

This isn't new for me. I didn't like Danny La Rue back in the day either.

Neither I think we I think we’re both minorities but on the equal sort of footing, but either then I don’t see it as an attack on women anyway

I think they’re challenging the inherent misogyny in the idea that a woman can only be beautiful (and therefore have value) if she wears makeup, high heels etc. and adheres to a very narrow ideal of what it is to be ‘feminine’. They take this artificial ideal to such an extreme that it becomes grotesque.

Even if many drag queens are not consciously engaging with it on that level that’s still how I see it. It’s like holding up a mirror to say ‘look how ridiculous this all is’. I wear makeup most days myself but I’m aware that it’s because to some degree I have been socialised to believe that my bare face is not acceptable to society, not young enough or ‘feminine’ enough somehow. It’s so heavily encouraged in society most of the time you don’t even think about it.

To me drag pops that bubble.

I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying right wing conservative women are abusing gay men?

@Abbyk1980 this is a fast moving thread and I may have missed it-but have you commented on the name Cheryl Hole? I use this name in particular because he has appeared on main stream TV, but there are many other drag performers whose names have a similar vibe.

And of course there are drag kings. Has one ever appeared on mainstream TV?

Well, I do hope that you are correct because this forum really upsets me that people would be so small minded to say things like five people have called them perverts disgusting

I've never heard of them. Do you think one would appear on Christmas Day Strictly?

Oh jesus I've no idea. If they wanted to, sure🤷‍♀️
I only know Irish drag Kings not sure about UK.

There is one drag king who I've been at parties at in NYC 20 years ago. Murray Hill.

There is a series out at the moment featuring a drag king. The drag king...Murray Hill.

So that's 1 in the last 2 decades. And all she does is wear suits. No actual offensive behaviour or mockery or abuse of men. No fake cock sticking out her trousers. No pretend wanking or rape jokes. It's a completely different thing.

Men are not materially disadvantaged by the fact that "only women can be beautiful", @ru53 .
Women are not allowed to age. Men are. They are not regarded so superficially, so I don't see that as a valid point for drag queens being progressive.

Drag belongs firmly in the past along with black and white minstrel shows.

It was often the same actors who would wipe off their blackface and put on womanface.

Neither is acceptable and saying that some women enjoy drag is no excuse. There's plenty of evidence that some black people went to minstrel shows. It doesn't make it ok for the oppressors to punch down at the oppressed.

Thank you. As I thought.

This.It’s basically entertainment for plebs.

I'm not in Ireland. Do they appear on mainstream tv?

Yes he presented the gay pride parade/festival on our national TV station. Possibly 2 years in a row...

Yes, I've been asking that question about drag kings....

You are misquoting me and misrepresenting my argument.