Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

[CurlewKate]

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

If they were taking control of homophobic narratives, why not mock straight men?
Why not challenge them, mock their dress, attitudes and the way they speak?

Well, we all see things differently, don't we.
I don't see drag as a fucked up parody, I don't take it so seriously that I think they're trying to be me or whatever, that's ridiculous imo, I'm me , they're just doing and expressing themselves.
Each to their own.
Plus I love watching Drag Race UK, bit of lip syncing to cheesy pop, sparkly dresses and laughs.
Always think the dressing room chat can be thought provoking too, how people who are gay and had to "hide" growing up feel they can express themselves, feel accepted more etc.
Seeing other people's perspectives, not everything's all about me.

If THAT is what he was doing that was wrong I would have to read up about it

I laughed at Lily Savage, I laughed at Dame Edna Everage, but drag queens now just seem to hate women. I was planning to watch Strictly, but couldn't be bothered - it was obvious who would win.

It is EXACTLY what he was doing - do come back with your comments when you have 'read up about it'.

The image is there for you to see in the post I quoted.

Pthagonal

Yeah I can see how that freaks you out...I'm terrified of clowns. 🤣

Lily Savage and Dame Edna were essentially pantomime dames. The style is comedic rather than exaggerated femininity and the character isn't sexualised.

There's always a subset of men and women who like watching people making women look stupid/weak/ridiculous. For women who like drag I think they think they are being "kind" and because these men are obviously not trying to look like "real" women, more a hideous caricature of a sexualised image of the worst aspects of a woman through the male gaze, they aren't really taking the micky out of anyone...they can't see that some men actually do see women this way.

I disagree completely with this.
However, gay men like Julian Clary with his flamboyant clothing. make up, and outrageous jokes (see Norman Lamont) etc did do this. He and others truly did take generations of abuse and belittlement, covering it in glitter and galloping round a field on it!

His act was a gay man being a gay man - not parodying and belittling women.

@Abbyk1980 "blackface is considered socially unacceptable because of the American history of minstrel shows, which were created specifically to entertain white people at the expense of black people. They were, quite literally, supposed to be racist, and they very much were."

Drag was created to entertain people at the expense of women. They are, quite literally, supposed to be sexist, and they very much are. We shouldn't find sexist entertainment any more acceptable than racist or homophobic entertainment.

Ann Coulter? That's your best example? She's an American extreme right wing nutter. She used to be high profile but until you mentioned her I haven't heard of her in years.

I don't know if anyone watched the Australian series on Netflix "You can't ask that"? There's an episode in S2 where they have cross gender people on and every one, bar the drag queen, is respectful of the sex they are identifying with. They go to great lengths to fit in and be "passable" because they clearly do feel that is where they belong. The drag queen just made it all about them and being "different" and not caring about being a caricature of a badly made up tarty woman because it was HIS CHOICE. That was quite clearly all there was in his life, while the others talked about work and family. That is the loudest and most honest portrayal of the difference I have seen on TV in years.

Do you ever read BBC news on line? There's a drag queen story practically every week! That IS obsessive as I assume they're quite a small percentage of the population.

The problem is that the people who love drag always find it very difficult to respond to some fundamental points. For example, if some drag acts are gay men fighting back against their oppressors (which is obviously a good thing) why aren't they parodying and mocking men and masculinity? Because that's where most of the oppression and violence gay men face comes from.

Why is it OK for some drag acts to use names and language that is demeaning to women?

If it's all about extreme gender bending, why are there so few drag kings? Yes, I know they exist-I've seen them. But I've never seen one on House of Games....

Oh, and I am sorry about the Strictly Spoiler.

Not sure gays and bis would like being lumped together with drag queens.

😂
Careful, your inner snob is showing 🙄😂
You sound like a Harry Enfield sketch.
"I'm considerably more classier than YOW!"

😁

Sadly I suspect they don't want to be outed as they may experience male violence. The ones on the show I mentioned were so passable I don't know if I would have noticed they weren't men. Going into a male loo after outing yourself nationally would be problematic for them. One of the trans women hadn't even told her fiancee she used to be a man...but the trans men both said they would be up front as otherwise they considered it rape.

Are @Workingclasslass and @Abbyk1980 related by any chance, if not, you seem like you’d really get on?

I saw something on Instagram recently about it being the anniversary of a suffragettes birthday and a drag queen was doing a voice over about her and called her, amongst other things, a "top slut." I just think can you not hear yourself? A top slut for fighting for votes for women. Wow.

Many of them are such grim misogynists. Remember the Pride March where one talked about dragging feminist lesbians who had the temerity to protest about homophobic trans stuff (even though "Pride is a protest" apparently) out "by their saggy old tits"

Why there are plenty of gays doing drag queen acts not every gay is against drag queen in fact you’d find majority are because if you look at pride marches they marched together contrary to what is said on here

There are also other people agreeing with me doesn’t mean to say we are all related does it or is it because mum‘s net means you all have to be anti-drag queen?

Ah, here we go - in 2018 a survey showed BBC has a higher number than average of trans identifying employees recruitingtimes.org/news/23597/bbc-amazed-after-secret-survey-reveals-that-417-of-its-staff-are-transgender/

How is it empowering?

Yep, always the way on these types of threads - if there's more than one dissenting voice, it automatically means you must all know the others, you get lumped in with them as "your mates" or accused of coming over from Twitter