Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

[CurlewKate]

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

You are lying about stone wall nobody has said that drag queens are the same as trans do not lie

Some of us see drag for what it is, misogyny in the form of womanface. It’s parallel to blackface, which we all agree is abhorrent,

I will repeat myself one more time because you’re not getting it. The women that are killed by men are killed by the same sort of men that would actively attack and kill gay people. If you cannot see that and see what the power dynamic is all about then I am sorry for you to actively lump. All men into the patriarchy is ridiculous because gay people also suffer a shitload of abuse from the same men.

No they’re not.

Oh, they do homophobic. Abuse is on the increase attacks are on the increase drag queens get attacked just as much as any gay guy gets attacked

Would we tolerate a straight woman doing an act which parodies gay men? With her hand on her hip and exaggerating the campness and making jokes? Would she be in Christmas Strictly?
I think not.

Honestly yes. You don’t have to agree with me. We all perceive things differently. I’m allowed to not be offended, you’re allowed to be offended. Both are valid.

Well, we do have drag kings and I don’t think gay people would have a problem with that if she was doing it in a funny way and not doing it as a very nasty way and I don’t think drag queen do it in a nasty way I really don

https://womenspeakscotland.com/2021/06/23/the-trans-umbrella-is-older-than-you-think/

Did I instantly create this graphic in order to lie?

@CountZacular

"What I’m mostly baffled about is men wearing drag on benign shows like Bake Off."

That's an interesting point - I mean you wouldn't expect Sharon Davies to appear on Bake Off in a swimsuit or Easter deed actress Michelle Collins to appear in character as Cindy Beale.

I don’t know the answer to this but maybe you do - what rate are gay men killed in the UK by homophobic attacks? Curious how that looks against the 2-3 murders of women a week.

Gay men are not abused by women, though.

There are aspects to power dynamics - this.is where intersectionality comes into play. Hierarchies aren't always neat. Oppression can be messy and complicated and work between groups in different ways.

In any of these groups, why is women's oppression so.invisible? Is it because it's so common it's hard to even recognise?

I've never seen a drag king. Ever. I've seen hundreds of drag queens on tv.
If a drag king or any other woman did a parody of a gay man, I am pretty sure - quite rightly - she wouldn't be on mainstream tv.

"The difference is power dynamics something I have said time and time again on here people are not quite getting that traditionally gay men have been abused themselves. They have not got the strongest power dynamic so when they do it they are not coming from a massive privilege because they are not if you are an able bodied person imitating somebody that doesn’t have privilege like a disabled person then that has crossed the line. Can you not see that?
Even a gay person doing it because they would have more privileged than disabled people because disabled people tend to be at the lowest of everything"

Are you saying that gay men are punching up and not down by targeting women?

Drag =/= gay. You know that, right?
And gay men are still men. They are not absolved of or incapable of misogyny and they still benefit from the patriarchy because they are men.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.
Why are drag acts in every show as women. If it’s an art form or an entertainment show then just come on as yourself.

If you really think this, there are a lot of right wing conservative women you need to meet

Would we tolerate a straight woman doing an act which parodies gay men? With her hand on her hip and exaggerating the campness and making jokes? Would she be in Christmas Strictly?
I think not.

Well there are bio queens, straight women. They do this.

Stonewall's definition of 'trans' included transvestites/crossdressers for years, right up until June this year.

Previously it read
"Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman, trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.”

Interesting about "womanface". I don't know, I see women put makeup on everyday. Are they voluntarily engaging in womenface?

Isn't that the type of question that the parody in drag is addressing?

Comparatively when you think there are more women than gay people you’re not gonna get the same figures also the point is they are still being attacked for being who they are and it is by the same sort of men that will go on an attack women and don’t forget many of the women that are killed are killed by their partners And it is still a community that is a minority that also faces abuse that is the point.
The patriarchy enables men to attack women. It also enables men to abuse gay men too if you cannot see that that’s up to you.

Because societies accept it.
Can you imagine if there was a female run regime where men had no rights, no independence and weren't allowed to speak outside of the home? The marches down Whitehall etc would be every Saturday for sure.

I love drag but like everything else there is good and bad

The result has been spoilt but Tayce is funny, self deprecating and very entertaining and if they've won it will be because people were entertained