What opinion of yours will nobody ever change?

[Kibble29]

For me it’s how disgusting it is to wash dishes in a sink or basin full of water. It turns my stomach a bit. The dishes have to be washed in fresh, running water.

No because if you do not work you do not have the burden of working. Double burden relates specifically to women working and coming home to do further jobs within the home, often the majority.

My mum was also a SAHM til I went to school and she never managed to have a career, just various low paid jobs, which has left her stuck in a crappy marriage with my dad as they’re both too poor to split up and I don’t respect her because I think she should’ve prioritised herself more. We’re all different.

And I am sure a gazillion other MN users will agree with you, but the surveys say women have never been so unhappy with their lot in life.

So you are not talking from experience, just your subjective observation.

If a woman freely chooses to stay because SAHM mother, that is a great thing. But historically, traditional gender roles always lacked, and still do, the egalitarian aspect. So in a traditional set up the woman is responsible for running the house, looking after the children, cooking, cleaning taking care of the husband and all his needs, carrying the mental load of everything and for every etc . Whilst the man, who in this set up is the „”provider” ( controller of the purse strings), the „”head of the house”, means that he comes back from his 9-5pm job to a cooked meal, and then has time to relax or have „”me”, whereas the woman is basically on call all 24/7. Mumsnet has so many threads by women, in exactly, these traditional set ups, who say they feel not valued, invisible, they feel like doormats, who have no financial control within their own homes, over their own lives etc. Yes, I am sure there are many traditional marriages with traditional gender roles, which are happy, but that definitely is in the minority. Sorry, women deserve a lot better than such inequality in a relationship, and I am talking from experience. Very clearly you are not.

The issue there was the crappy marriage not your mum being a SAHP. You don't respect the woman who sacrificed her career to be there for you, that is rather appalling.

The surveys don’t say these women think work is optional or that they wish they were SAHMs though. The problem is they’re doing it alone with no support from men. So, men are the problem. But so much of the stuff women burden themselves with is choice and sometimes martyrdom. Enabling useless meat puppet husbands rather than thinking of their own needs.

The issue absolutely is the SAHP. If she’d have prioritised a career she’d have had more money and a happier life and so would I, as I wouldn’t have had to put up with my dad’s nonsense either. No, I don’t respect her. I think in many ways she’s an absolute doormat and made some terrible choices that weren’t in her own interest. Edited to add I don’t think she was a good role model either. I respect and look up to women who blaze their own trail and achieve things.

The hallmark of traditional gender roles is the obvious and deliberate lack of equal rights, within a marriage/relationship. Inequality 101!

I might be wrong but I think this is the same poster who used to terrorise Style and Beauty threads with weird unsolicited selfies and assertions of superiority (her style of posting is quite distinct). She’d often have unhinged episodes like this, disappear for a bit and come back under a different username.

As I say though, I could be wrong.

what actually makes me happier is working, and being able to outsource all the bits I hate. Cleaner, gardener etc. I also liked having childcare in place so if I was ill I could actually take time off to recover, and also things like take a day’s a/l to get caught up with things, go shopping, drs appts etc without dragging the kids too

That's great for you, but not everyone working full time can afford to pay staff to take on domestic or gardening chores. And many working parents need to take all their leave to cover school holidays so have no extra day's of leave for themselves at all.

Lets face it, whether women are happier working or staying at home will depend on a huge number of individual factors and circumstances.

So your Dad was shit but you blame your Mum for it? Your Mum who did work throughout most of your childhood? Not all people are able to forge careers. Its really hard for many people in minimum wage jobs to get out of them.

Its sad you had a crap childhood but it seems you are misplaced to blame your Mum for this. Life is not a movie where plucky individuals are always able to rise to the top.

I am speaking from experience, you shouldn't jump to assumptions.

I am a thousand times happier not having to work. My home, relationships and general wellbeing are greatly improved because I actually have time.

I am not talking about historical relationships or inequality in rights. I am talking about the here and now.

Yes, I am sure there are many traditional marriages with traditional gender roles, which are happy, but that definitely is in the minority. You have no evidence for that assumption.

Sorry, women deserve a lot better than such inequality in a relationship, and I am talking from experience. Very clearly you are not. Yeah, who is talking about inequality though? I'm certainly not. For every unhappy SAHM thread I could find 100 I hate my job, I don't want to go to work anymore, I'm exhausted, I get no time to myself, I barely see the kids threads.

Not sure why you are getting so worked up. The title of the thread is opinion of yours will nobody ever change? Why are you hellbent on trying to make me change it.

I don't disagree entirely. In the cases of working women having useless husbands. But we can't deny the correlation of becoming more unhappy as more of us have had to go out and work.

So I repeat the issue wasn't being a SAHP, it was being a doormat and your dad being a twat.

I suppose that’s only accurate if you view working as a burden. I don’t.

It’s financial independence, it’s freedom, it’s fulfilment, it’s providing financially for my family which gives me a sense of achievement and pride.

It isn’t a burden.

Not anymore.

3 children is not a big family.

I'm only pointing out the feminist definition of what double burden is. You cannot be double burdened if you don't work.

The burden of being financially dependent on someone else? That’s one of the main reasons why I wouldn’t be a SAHM.

Irrelevant to the definition of being double burdened.

What are you not getting? The fact she didn’t have a job that earned her enough money to get out of the situation was absolutely the problem! She had no financial independence.

A really good article, regarding this, with a survey, within the article.

”A large survey of married couples found that 81% of egalitarian couples report that they are happy while only 18% of “traditional” couples reported that they were happy. According to this research, egalitarian couples are 4.5 times more likely to be happily married than traditional couples”.

https://parentingtranslator.substack.com/p/are-trad-wives-really-happier

But that wouldn't have been necessary if she wasn't a pushover and your dad wasn't a twat.

I also refuse to believe that people are 'stuck' in relationships. They just don't want to lose certain things.

My sister was a SAHM, her partner cheated, they broke up, he basically kicked her out of the house with their 2 kids as they were not married and her name was not on the mortgage. She had to find a job as a cleaner and rent a modest house.

That private healthcare is a waste of money and immoral (view of close friends).

both Dh and myself had cancer and it’s been brilliant knowing we have quick access to appointments and treatments needed.

my friend has a jag, I don’t discuss her car choice which I think is extravagant and yet she often likes to discuss my spending on health care.

getting close to telling her to shut up now, I’ve already gone low contact

The study you have attached is misleading. It does not state what percentage of the women are working. It actually suggests the majority of them are working because it includes average incomes by spouse, thereby are not 'trad wives' at all.. So the reference to egalitarian couples is in relation to how decisions, etc are are made not employment status. Of course the working women who are also taking on the traditional gender roles are going to report being less happy, it literally supports the double burden argument.