Christmas market attack in Germany tonight😥 article linked

[Treetops11]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/dec/20/germany-christmas-market-madgeburg
I have attended many Christmas markets over the years. They are so crowded especially at the moment as German children finished school for the Christmas holidays. Frightening, my prayers are with all the victim's 🙏

They will surely hope that it is their wives and children will be the lucky escapees and in the meantime they can send money to improve their lives in Afghanistan

How can they ensure that money reaches them? What money ? Under asylum law they are not allowed work . Why leave your wife & children is such a precarious situation, bring them with you or stay with them.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/nov/14/what-happens-to-afghanistans-left-behind-women-as-the-taliban-rises

Interesting article. Enough is not being asked about why the men are fleeing but leaving women & children behind?

I am 56 and don't remember there ever being an issue with young male illegal migrants until the last 20 or so years (and none of these sort of attacks either - the world was much safer). What changed was the Internet making information available and hra being embedded so that we can't deport even dangerous criminals to so called dangerous countries so these mens safety is rated more important to the establishment than women and children (and sometimes men) here who ate actually citizens. The same is happening all over western Europe including Germany by the looks of things.

They can work and earn money once they are granted asylum [the majority]

There will be ways and means of safely transferring money

For sure it's high risk strategy but isn't that a measure of their desperation and lack of other choices?

Did you notice anything else happening in the world outside Europe 20 - 25 years ago?

I don't dispute that there is a threat of jihadist terror attacks, they seem to be the most lethal ones in the EU at least https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/terrorism-eu-facts-figures/
I just dispute it in this case based on the facts that are known till now. This might change.
I also don't think closing the borders to refugees is the answer. I do think screening for potential threats should be heightened and also law enforcement cooperation across borders should be increased.
I am a child/grandchild of refugees/war victims myself, so I probably have a different viewpoint.

If I and my daughters were trapped in Afghanistan there is no way I'd want my husband and the male family members to abandon us.

I've never heard such utter rubbish.

IIRC there are something like 100000 Isis fighters interned in camps in N Syria atm which is a major source of concern with the new government

It doesn't matter what the case is .
This man like many before him turn on, murdered & maimed citizens of the country that gave him shelter like the men in many other similar attacks.
He turned on the country & murdered the citizens who gave him asylum & shelter. End of.

Havn't many countries in Europe paused asylum applications from Syria, I would image this is one of the reasons why & understandably so.

Well that would be your choice,

Other people decide differently

And it's easy to sit in your comfortable safe home and say what you'd do

It's easy to sit in your comfortable and safe home and misunderstand just how little worth and power women have in some societies.

Did you know the recent crackdown on women that midwives are not allowed and they can't even talk to each other.

I'd say in such a society have men who know and love you around is vital to survival?

It's easy to sit in comfort in the West isn't it and not be able to imagine the sheer horror of life for women in that medieval hell hole.

Yes I believe that's so - I was more hinting at the new governments ability to keep them interned

.

I actually think people should be deported and their citizenship should be revoked if they commit serious crimes.
However you can't deport people to countries where they will be killed even dangerous criminals. Otherwise we could just execute them here. Would be cheaper too.

@cakeorwine

"I believe that me telling you what I believe won't change your belief at all."

It's hard to know if I would agree or disagree with what you believe if you won't tell me what that belief is.

Unless of course you do indeed believe that the attacker specifically chose a German Christmas Market in order to primarily target Indian Hindus, in which case yes then I would disagree.

Completely agree. I've been following the plight of Afghan women ,it is horrific. Who I'd going to deliver these babies. Life expectancy in Afghanistan is short. Who is going to replace the current wave of midwives? The men aren't going to deliver the babies.
I cannot believe the men are leaving in droves leaving their female family behind knowing they cannot speak outside, cannot leave the house without a male relative to chaperone them, cannot access education...

Only the stronget & fittest will make it the border , but females cannot get there without a male relative.

Knowing what we know in the west why aren't governments deporting these men back to the women & children that literally cannot survive without them? Surely that's more humane to the women & children? Or ultimately are male lives more important?

@Menopausalsourpuss

"I am 56 and don't remember there ever being an issue with young male illegal migrants until the last 20 or so years (and none of these sort of attacks either - the world was much safer). "

It's simply due to numbers of immigrants.

From 1980 to 2000 average annual net immigration was around 50k people per year coming into the UK which is easy to absorb and provides a net benefit to the economy by quickly providing hard to fill roles etc.

However over the last decade it has been over 300k per year and in the last three years over 800k per year. That roughly the population of Newcastle or Liverpool every year.

With more people means statistically that there will be more crime involving immigrants. As well of course adding pressure on infrastructure, housing, healthcare, education etc.

I think it was more where it was rather than flag waving.
Why flag wave a Syrian flag at a Christmas market. Slightly inappropriate and unnecessary.

Agree . Also genuinely wondering now will many Syrians want to move back home & start rebuilding their country. Many seems so excited & happy with the end of the old regime , all the newspaper reports & TV interviews seem to suggest that the Syrians living in Europe are very happy now & feel the horizon is bright for Syria.

Yes. I don’t understand why they do this. It’s not surprising people think they have nefarious motives to leave their women behind to fester and suffer.

"Knowing what we know in the west why aren't governments deporting these men back to the women & children that literally cannot survive without them? Surely that's more humane to the women & children? Or ultimately are male lives more important?"

Wouldn't it be better to support forces opposing the Taliban with money and weapons? I mean that helped to get them into power in the first place.
Or do it the old fashioned eay and just invade?
Seems to be the option for everyone involved.

@katter

I don't know what the answer is, non of us do.
It's an impossible rolling problem but one thing is education.
Thankfully with the creation of the smart phone people in all sorts it hidden societies can get some access to the outside world and other ways of life.

We know the Taliban do not allow women leave the house without male chaperones, they can't speak in public, cannot get an education, cannot train as nurses or midwives any longer.
Surely their male family members need to stay with their female family members to ensure they can leave the house?

Also with the creation of smart phones & children accessing them radicalisation has never been easier. As we saw with the foiled plot in Vienna back in the summer.