Do housewives still exist?

[Mumteedum]

Had a funny moment in the supermarket this week where a lady was grumbling about something and we had a little small talk about how busy it is at Xmas and supermarket moving things so you can't find stuff. She referred to 'harassed housewives ' and I said 'yes and non housewives too'. She sort of apologised but I hadn't meant it to be as if I'd taken offense so made a joke of it all and all nice and fine, the end.

But it just felt like a word from another era. I remember mum saying she was a housewife. Are there any housewives these days?

I found it really odd that the lady would assume anyone was a housewife these days.

Because everyone must do it as you said? It’s just part of being an adult.

WFH already has a defined meaning as well.

That's not true, some people outsource cleaning, housekeeping, childcare, gardening, shopping, cooking, etc. And then, through the magic of it generating money for the treasury, it becomes work-work and it is considered valuable.

The vast majority of people do at least some of it themselves. Not many people can afford to outsource absolutely everything.

Providing a service for others is also different than doing it for your own house.

@SouthLondonMum22 , so what do you suggest we call them Misssuperior SouthLondonknowitall?

Yes, they might do some of it themselves. But if they have chosen to forego paid work to stay at home they'll be doing much more of it.

You can't split the the space-time continuum and be actively caring for your child whilst also working, even from home, unless you are prepared to do a spectacularly shit job of both.

But the moment you get somebody else to take on that work - even if that work is done by a nanny in the same home environment - then we'll consider it proper work.

The difference isn't in the amount of work done, or the amount of value achieved by that work, or how hard someone has worked or if they are just, say, swinging the lead with a junk job "WFH" but whether it fits neatly into the dynamic of paid work.

By the same token, many hours of unpaid work done by women in the caring economy lacks a robust and highly valued metric or language to explain the achievements being performed outside of taxation. Some posters on the board seems more than happy with that status quo and enthusiastically participate in the denigration of that unpaid work.

I think the current terms work. SAHM’s if they have young children at home, housewife or maybe homemaker if they prefer if not.

I’m just discussing it like everyone else, not sure why the personal comment was necessary.

I don’t know any housewives but know a few SAHMs- I was myself for a while

I think the term sahm is more common these days. But SAHMs are unlikely to be so long term I think. I can imagine a housewife still being a housewife once the kids have flown the nest and probably has no intention to return to employment, but do much more than looking after the kids. But due to financial constraints it’s probably a very rare thing these days and SAHMs will invariably go back to work as the kids grow.

I think it would be very unusual these days for a sahm in her 20s or 30s or even 40s to like to be called a housewife.

@Whataretalkingabout Speak for yourself! Once my daughter was at school, I classed myself as a housewife for the years before I went back to work and would do so again if I wasn't working, although as I'm past retirement age now, I suppose that wouldn't be technically correct any more.

I've been working from home for the last 22 years, and have a very different life to when I was a housewife or a stay at home mum before then. Not worse or better, just different. When I was a housewife I had time to do all the decorating, gardening, cook more elaborate meals, make toys, and keep the house immaculate; now I do as much as I can after/before work like everyone else who works full time, but the house is not pristine like it used to be because that's just not possible to fit in around work.

How about "people" ?

I think housewife is a bit of an outdated term for several reasons.
Perfectly fine for older women who don’t do paid work outside the home but not really for younger women.
These reasons include:
A lot of women are not wives.
It is a sexist term as a man is not a wife.
It implies your role in life is to provide only domestic chores, nowadays we have machines such as dishwashers and washing machines ti cut down that work. When the term was in common use, women had to do things by hand. Things such as automatic washing machines and vacuum cleaners did not exist. All household tasks were hard and labour intensive. Meals cooked entirely from scratch without microwaves to reheat anything, so a woman had to cook the meal and gave it ready at a specific time, again extremely labour intensive.
Nowadays, it doesn’t take half as long to get things done. There is no need for someone to spend 8 hours a day cooking and cleaning.
Stating at hone to look after young children is entirely different. Hence why I think the term full time parent hs perfectly acceptable. To me it means the parent doesn’t outsource that role, either to family or paid help.
I don’t think it diminishes what working parents do either. It’s obvious that if someone us in paid employment say for 8 hours a day, that someone else is doing the role of caring for their young children.

I'd think of a housewife as someone who didn't work with high school aged plus children (no disabilities/ND etc).

I’m not a fan of full time parent. Someone cares for my children when I’m working but I’m still always their parent, financially providing for them is part of being a parent.

Maybe full-time active parent? Full-time caring parent? Full-time present parent? What hoop would you prefer people to jump through so you don't feel like you are missing out?

Full time parent is dismissive of WOH parents and indeed parents of school age parents (who get 32.5h of childcare provided by the state).

I think it would be very unusual these days for a sahm in her 20s or 30s or even 40s to like to be called a housewife.

I don't know anyone in their 50s or 60s who would be happy with the term. I'm in my 50s and got pissed off when people called me a SAHM when I was on maternity leave, I told them I was a job title on maternity leave.

@Pumpkincozynights Good grief - how old do you think some people are on this thread?! I was born in the 1950s, and from as early as I can remember, we had a vaccuum cleaner and a twin tub washing machine. I agree that modern washing machines are easier but I don't think they save THAT much time. I doubt that I cook any differently today than my mum did. Although we've got a microwave oven the only thing I can think of it being used for is heating my pain au chocolat in the morning. If I want to heat something up I do it in the oven or on the hob. I still do just the same amount of ironing as my mum would done and I don't think there's much difference in the amount of housework that I did when I was a housewife compared with my mum or mother in law. As far as being at home when you are bringing up children is concerned, just because people are entitled to free childcare doesn't mean that they use it - we chose not to send our daughter to nursery until the term before she started Reception, and then just for a couple of afternoons to get her used to being away from me.

But surely the important thing is that people should be called what they WANT to be called? I have never been a homemaker and really hate the term - once my daughter was at school, I was a housewife and was happy to be one. If that terms or any other suits other people, that's great and I have enough respect for other people to refer to them how they choose to be known. It's no different to getting someone's name right .

Yep, my story is the same as yours! After being a SAHM for over 10 years nobody wants to know and the sort of jobs I could get I get looked over for lively young students 🙄 so yeh I’m a housewife

A hoop to jump through? 😂

I am a housewife and I'm not ashamed to use that term because it is an accurate description of my situation.

IMO I distinguish a SAHM as a woman who is not in employment and has children under the age of being safely independent, say 12 years old. Of course this differs with SEN children.

A housewife is a woman who is not in employment and has either no children or teens.

I am a Stay-at-home Mum and housewife. I use both terms, as I think it’s two separate roles intensely raising children (SAHM) and thoroughly cleaning and organising our home (housewife).

I’ve actually come to love the term ‘home maker’, because to me making a home for my children is a beautiful thing. A clean, comfortable, reassuring, magical haven. Home making is about nourishing your key relationships and experiences, creating rituals and memories together.

I use the term ‘home maker’ in a very inclusive way, for example I know one couple of very dear friends who are both full-time police officers as well as parents to 3 young children. They are both wonderful home makers. I also think famous working mums like Stacey Soloman and Mrs Hinch are really talented home makers. It’s a term I’d love to see more frequently and widely used, regardless of gender or working status.

To end on a humourous, light-hearted note, no label is perfect. I don’t feel either the term SAHM or housewife reflect the intensive gardening, DIY or car tasks which I undertake. Traditional housewives would have been less likely to do these. My biggest secret that makes me feel like a fake housewife is that my husband (full time teacher) has always been the chef in our house. Still cooks dinner majority of nights like when we both worked pre-children, he really enjoys it. Does a legendary Sunday roast, I’ve never cooked one! 😂 Not sure what a traditional housewife would make of me! 😂

Can one not be a "home maker", "intensely raise children" and work? I'm not too bad at doing all three 😀

What does 'intensely' raising children look like?

For me, I would describe how I have raised my children (aged 3 and 7) as ‘intensely’ as I haven’t outsourced their care. I breastfed both for 10 months exclusively and batch cooked all of their food from scratch for the first 2 years. I was more than happy to do this. I’ve always planned and blocked out their week so they have age appropriate activities to do and opportunities to socialise around their nap schedules.

Looking after my son during lockdown was ‘intense’ in that everything we did out of the house stopped, no toddler groups/swimming/visiting friends/even having Mum/friends over for a cup of tea. So that felt ‘intense’ as I was completely alone and needed to fill every day with activities myself (art, messy baths, setting up indoor ‘soft play’- I had to be really creative every day).

I found the first 6 months of having my daughter ‘intense’ as I was also potty training my son aged 2 3/4. It seemed that at the exact moment I started feeding, my son would need to potty. So I’d either stop feeding to help him and my daughter would cry, or I’d watch him dancing and hope he wouldn’t have an accident, as I’d then need to wash him, clean it up and wash the clothes. That really did feel pretty intense at the time- I hated upsetting either of my children, and for me going from 1 to 2 was a big adjustment.

I would also describe booking and attending multiple doctor/hospital appointments for my DD (3) over the past year and still awaiting answers as to whether she has a serious immune deficiency as ‘intense’. I’ve watched her every day for a month lose the majority of her hair, dealt with all the stares and questions from concerned people out and about, finding clumps of hair everywhere. I’ve cared for her 24/7 whilst isolating with shingles and her being in severe pain, juggling that around getting my son to school.

Day to day I do 15 school runs a week myself. I therefore personally deal with all of the day to day liaison with school, other parents (which can be a right pain!), stopping my children joining in with poor behaviour of others running off/fighting. I regularly have children over after school and for dinner/supervise children at the park to help Mum friends who work.

I could give lots of other examples which are very personal to my own experiences. I’m sure others will have their own too.

As detailed above, I think everyone should be proud to describe themselves as a ‘home maker’ regardless of gender/paid working responsibilities.

For me, there is a difference with ‘intensity’ for SAHP’s in that they are with their children 24/7, often alone all day. My husband is out of the house for 8-10 hours a day, so of course cannot do school runs/make our DD’s lunch/read & play with her all afternoon/do multiple baths & loads of washing when ill, run after school play dates, etc. I am much more personally hands on for many more hours. All my friends are working mums, and they acknowledge this (e.g. several said they decided to delegate potty training entirely paid nurseries, which I did not- so of course different in personal intensity).

The word ‘intense’ can be used in many ways to describe many experiences. Some Mums may find their children being up a lot at night ‘intense’, being ill a lot ‘intense’, siblings fighting a lot ‘intense’, juggling paid work with children as ‘intense’. We’re all just trying to describe our own experiences as we see them.

This sounds like a strategy to appease people who will never afford you the opportunity to lay out what you are doing with your children that they cannot achieve remotely.

I don't like intense - it sounds a bit disproportional to the situation.