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Silvan · 04/12/2024 14:29

Notmoog · 04/12/2024 14:16

oh, I didn't realise you'd spoken to him.....

To be fair I think it’s a reasonable assumption. It’s unlikely to be because he is gender critical or dislikes the corporate take over of pride or some such reason. But it’s his right to hold these views. We can’t police people’s private thoughts. If he is openly hostile to gay people that’s obviously different and can be managed as in any workplace.

Havalona · 04/12/2024 14:30

If a person does not comply with something that is legally provided for, then that's fine - sanction them. It happens all the time when people break the law.

Last time I looked, wearing a shirt saying this or that is not compulsory or breaking the law provided it is not discriminatory.

I don't care if this was a rainbow shirt, or any other kind of shirt saying this or that, if the person doesn't want to wear it, they don't have to.

What law is he breaking?

Notmoog · 04/12/2024 14:32

Silvan · 04/12/2024 14:29

To be fair I think it’s a reasonable assumption. It’s unlikely to be because he is gender critical or dislikes the corporate take over of pride or some such reason. But it’s his right to hold these views. We can’t police people’s private thoughts. If he is openly hostile to gay people that’s obviously different and can be managed as in any workplace.

I don't think it's a reasonable assumption that he thinks gay people shouldn't exist

Interested in this thread?

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EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 04/12/2024 14:32

I don’t want to be part of any compelled speech or compelled religion or compelled political persuasion. If those are his choices I support them. I also support those who want to embrace their sexuality alongside those who aren’t ready to. They could have just worn an armband and he should have been allowed to opt out. There was no need for a rainbow tracksuit.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 04/12/2024 14:35

ComtesseDeSpair · 04/12/2024 14:14

I think it’s disingenuous to pretend he won’t wear a rainbow shirt because he has a gender critical position on transpeople. He won’t wear a rainbow shirt because he believes that being gay is wrong, that gay people shouldn’t exist, and doesn’t want to be associated with any suggestion that being gay is perfectly normal - and there’s no place for that in any walk of life, particularly if you work in a role visible to the public and your employer is paying you to represent them.

You have no idea what he thinks.

ByMerryKoala · 04/12/2024 14:35

It's a hideous, migraine inducing tracksuit.

Silvan · 04/12/2024 14:36

Notmoog · 04/12/2024 14:32

I don't think it's a reasonable assumption that he thinks gay people shouldn't exist

Ok but it’s probably reasonable to infer that he thinks homosexuality is immoral.

username299 · 04/12/2024 14:37

IdylicDay · 04/12/2024 14:29

I'm googling him and am yet to see any quotes or anything attributed to him that even remotely suggests gay people shouldn't 'exist'. If you can help me out here, I'd appreciate it. He has strong religious beliefs, and those beliefs are the same for pre-marital sex, infidelity, etc. It doesn't mean he hates gay people and 'thinks they shouldn't exist'.

FWIW I'm non-religious and support gay rights. However I also support people who have strong religious views and don't think they are any more 'homophobic' than they are infidelityphobic or pre marital sexphobic. Religious beliefs should be respected as much as atheist beliefs or gay beliefs are. It doesn't make him a bad person. I think its very narrow-minded and bigoted to say religious people are wrong for their beliefs.

Do you agree that we should respect all religious beliefs?

According to most religions women are inferior and should be subservient to men.

Some religious people believe it's acceptable to marry children.

Many religions are openly homophobic and in some countries gay people are thrown from the top of buildings.

Some people are so open minded their brains have fallen out.

unclebuck · 04/12/2024 14:38

If the Premier ship gave a single fuck about gay people they would support gay players and basically, fundamentally change the culture of the game. Gay slurs are fine at the football - even MUFC - but DD was told she is not allowed to wear leggings. They are a disgrace, a jacket makes no difference. Do you think for one moment the other players actually give a fuck?

Notmoog · 04/12/2024 14:41

Silvan · 04/12/2024 14:36

Ok but it’s probably reasonable to infer that he thinks homosexuality is immoral.

yes, but that's completely different and there is nothing wrong with having a moral objection to homosexuality, is there

Skyrainlight · 04/12/2024 14:42

Since transactivists have threatened women and eroded and trampled their rights I would refuse to wear a rainbow shirt too.

ByMerryKoala · 04/12/2024 14:43

username299 · 04/12/2024 14:37

Do you agree that we should respect all religious beliefs?

According to most religions women are inferior and should be subservient to men.

Some religious people believe it's acceptable to marry children.

Many religions are openly homophobic and in some countries gay people are thrown from the top of buildings.

Some people are so open minded their brains have fallen out.

No, I don't. I think faith based beliefs that are misogynistic and homophobic have no place in civilised society. Including the spades of it hiding behind the rainbow flag.

TonTonMacoute · 04/12/2024 14:47

It's the dreaded Stonewall behind this, who think it's okay for men to compete in women's sports.

I for one am sick of them bullying and forcing people to support them. Of course the FA should support gay players and stand up against racism and any other sort of discrimination. That includes not sanctioning people for their religious beliefs.

Getting Stonewall to do it for them is not the way to go, as this fuss shows.

TinklySnail · 04/12/2024 14:51

Don’t blame him, don’t care what religion he is.
Stop trying to force opinions on football players.
They are there and get paid to play football. Leave them to do what they do.

Stressedafff · 04/12/2024 14:53

Footballers should absolutely not be used as political chess pieces.
I wouldn’t wear it either, he is Muslim. He isn’t asking other players to wear shalwar kameez or abstain from pork and alcohol.
Change the culture of the game if they want to tackle homophobia. And stop letting biological men compete against women for that matter as well…..

TheFlyingHorse · 04/12/2024 14:59

What he or any of his team mates think is irrelevant. They're there to play football. These are the problems that arise when one opinion is deemed socially acceptable and another isn't. The idiots at the FA claim to believe in diversity but not diversity of opinion.

Silvan · 04/12/2024 15:00

Notmoog · 04/12/2024 14:41

yes, but that's completely different and there is nothing wrong with having a moral objection to homosexuality, is there

Edited

Clearly that depends on your point of view. Is a moral objection to homosexuality a protected belief? If so, he's allowed to express that in the course of his employment.

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 04/12/2024 15:03

AuContraire · 04/12/2024 14:04

He's not being homophobic, he's following his own religious beliefs.

Would you expect Christian/Gay/atheist players to wear a shirt celebrating Muslims?

So it’s ok to be homophobic because he’s Muslim? How does that fit with the Kick it Out ethos?

FOJN · 04/12/2024 15:03

ComtesseDeSpair · 04/12/2024 14:14

I think it’s disingenuous to pretend he won’t wear a rainbow shirt because he has a gender critical position on transpeople. He won’t wear a rainbow shirt because he believes that being gay is wrong, that gay people shouldn’t exist, and doesn’t want to be associated with any suggestion that being gay is perfectly normal - and there’s no place for that in any walk of life, particularly if you work in a role visible to the public and your employer is paying you to represent them.

The "shouldn't exist" argument is disingenuous too. It's usually used to imply that there is a desire to kill people from a particular group which is patently manipulative nonsense when expressed in the UK.

Many people are disgusted by anything rainbow flag related now and it's not because they are homophobic, that accusation has, unfortunately, lost all meaning thanks to bullying activists.

Notmoog · 04/12/2024 15:04

Silvan · 04/12/2024 15:00

Clearly that depends on your point of view. Is a moral objection to homosexuality a protected belief? If so, he's allowed to express that in the course of his employment.

as a believer in free thought, people can have a moral objection to whatever they like as long as that doesn't manifest in treating anybody badly.

claratheskivvy · 04/12/2024 15:07

We're not policing peoples thoughts now are we?
Perhaps the football club shouldn't have signed him due to his religious views? Perhaps nobody with religious views should be hired anywhere?

hamsandyams · 04/12/2024 15:12

Presumably he would also refuse to wear a shirt promoting Wonga, Budweiser or Walls Sausages too as he views all those things to be immoral. I would assume he treats people who earn interest on their saving and drink with due respect, and would hope he treats gay people with the same respect. He doesn’t have to actively endorse them though.

I think adulterers are immoral. Presumably many people who cheat aren’t of the same view. I still think they deserve respect and treating like a human being and equal rights, but I won’t be decking myself out in Ashley Madison merchandise.

We should be judging individuals by their day to day actions, not whether they take part in performative acts which actually mean very little.

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 04/12/2024 15:12

I love this place sometimes. The not-so-thinly veiled Muslim hatred is usually out in force at any mention of something “they” might have done, yet when one of “them” suddenly does something that can be twisted to almost fit the anti-trans agenda you’re all suddenly super tolerant of this wonderful religion 😂.

Honestly, you couldn’t make it up 🤦‍♀️.

SuperfluousHen · 04/12/2024 15:13

Begsthequestion · 04/12/2024 13:51

Because it's part of the "kick homophobia out of football" campaign.

There's not a lot of anti-Alzheimer-ism in football, as far as I'm aware.

Given the way women’s sport is being sacrificed on the altar of T I think it’s very cheeky to use any sport to promote the LGBT cause.

claratheskivvy · 04/12/2024 15:14

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 04/12/2024 15:12

I love this place sometimes. The not-so-thinly veiled Muslim hatred is usually out in force at any mention of something “they” might have done, yet when one of “them” suddenly does something that can be twisted to almost fit the anti-trans agenda you’re all suddenly super tolerant of this wonderful religion 😂.

Honestly, you couldn’t make it up 🤦‍♀️.

It's more a case of principle than supporting that particular belief system.