I can't cope with depressed brother being so reliant on me. Feel like a bitch for saying that.

[inigomontoyahwillcox]

I'm so sorry - this going to be so long - but I need to get this out. I'm up with this awful cough/chest infection which makes it impossible to lie down and sleep. Been ill since last Tuesday. Have had virtually no sleep since then. Pretty sure a lot of you will think I'm a heartless cow, but I'm getting to my wits end.

Context. My brother (quite significantly older than me) has suffered from depression since he was a teen. He has been on antidepressants since then, except for a couple of occasions when he's taken himself off them for one reason or another, which have ended up in disaster. He lives about 2.5 hours away from me.

For some years now he has been spending more and more time at my house with my DH, DD and I. He lives alone and came to stay with us during lock down, and has often come to stay with us, sometimes for weeks, off and on since then when he's feeling low or had a crappy couple of weeks (e.g. work stress). I've always said to him of course he can come, how can I not, but he's often then stayed and stayed, prolonging his stay without discussing it with me - just declaring he's not going to go home for another week at the end of his planned stay.

He has a fantastic job in the civil service, but has had lot and lots of absences for various ailments over the past couple of years and they are understandably getting serious about his attendance. He seems to think this is very unfair and how they just don't understand. I've tried gently - but seriously - to explain that you can indeed be dismissed for repeated or lengthy absences.

In May this year he started getting some odd physical symptoms - balance issues/vertigo mainly (other very vague things like feeling cold, and out of it) - I rushed down there to him when this initially happened as he took himself to hospital thinking he was having a stroke. Ultimately anything serious was ruled out and after taking him to a few appointments for some further checks I drove him back to mine to stay. He decided that these symptoms were due to his antidepressant (that he'd been on for 15 years), so agreed with his GP to reduce his dose to an incredibly small one (questionable that it was even therapeutic anymore - it was 1/4 of the starting dose, he had been on double the starting dose for 15 years). His physical symptoms did clear up eventually - he put this down to this reduction in his antidepressants - I wasn't so convinced. I also voiced my concern that he was now effectively not on antidepressants and we all know how that had ended up in the past and that he needed to push to try another antidepressant if he didn't want to go back to his old one.

He eventually went back home and to work, and was there for a few months until he started experiencing stomach issues, now diagnosed as IBS (which I know is not fun - I've had it for years myself) and yet again took himself off work. He was working with his GP and a dietician and put on the FODMAP diet which he's still on. Again, he came to ours for a few weeks. His work were getting very ancy by this time and he started to do some hours remotely from ours as he had no choice. Eventually he went home again, he was home for a week only then for his depression to increase so I told him to get an emergency appointment with his GP who told him to double his dose last week. Well all hell broke loose (assuming side effects of increasing the dose). I've been ill for a couple of months now with all these bloody relentless viruses (also been very anemic for a lot longer and recently had a couple of infusions and currently undergoing tests to find out why - so you can imagine how rough I've been feeling), but last Tuesday I came down with proper flu (raging temp etc.) and have been in bed since and have been mainly off work (doing work when needed from bed). I never take time off work, honestly have to be at deaths door - have subsequently developed a chest infection and am on antibiotics. Got a call from my brother at 5:30am on Wednesday with him feeling awful saying I needed to drive down and collect him, after explaining I couldn't as I was ill asked to speak to DH and asked him to go. I said to DH that he couldn't, he had work plus he was helping me out with a work event in the evening which I obviously couldn't attend any more but he still needed to arrange some stuff and be there for a short while. I put my foot down and said he had to either drive, get the train or wait until we could drive to him and if he was in crisis to call his local crisis team immediately. He eventually said he would drive as he couldn't fit all the stuff he wanted to bring in a backpack so the train was out (so he'd get obviously decided at that point he was coming for a while).

Since he's been with us he has been waking me up every morning at silly-o'clock (e.g. 5-6), as he's been experiencing massive anxiety. I've been woken up three times now to him standing in our bedroom crying and saying he can't cope. I am getting about 2 hours of sleep per night due to this chest infection anyway, and have usually only just dropped off when he's waking me up. At this rate I'm never going to get better. DH had to stop him coming into our bedroom the other day when I had eventually managed to doze off. Anyway, called the local out of hours crisis team yesterday morning and sat with him whilst he spoke to them, they're seeing him this morning and have told him to register as a temporary patient at my local GP and they are hopefully going to make a plan going forward - e.g. moving to a new antidepressant (I hope). On the phone he said to them he was going to stay with me indefinitely (no discussion with me) and can't see himself doing his job for some months.

In the past when he's had a crisis like this he's decamped to our parents who look after him for months whilst he recovers and he finds a new job - but he's decided that he finds it too stressful to stay with them (they're getting on now as well). I can see what is going to happen. He is going to loose his job, loose his rented flat as a result and have nowhere to live but here with us. So, unemployed, living with us indefinitely. And what choice do I have?

It's really stressful when he stays with us - just the whole dynamic/routine of the household goes out the window. He has always been single and as a result his life revolves around himself, he spreads himself and his things around the house, and changes/moves/breaks thing (little things, but they all add up) and gets argumentative when I ask him not to do something. My home just doesn't feel like my home anymore; I can't spend evenings chilling out lying on the sofa in front of the telly with DH, as we often do, he's often lying on the sofa watching TV himself, he smokes although takes himself outside but his clothes smell of smoke. He is in our small spare room (well, he's on the sofa tonight for some reason) which we had just recently decked out as DD's study as her bedroom isn't really big enough for a desk; she's finishing her mocks tomorrow and has her GCSEs in May - she has ADHD and it's been incredibly challenging for her academically, but we'd really turned a corner recently and she's determined to get into 6th form, I'm so worried all of this is going to upheave her, stress her out and affect her performance; she's been so proud of her achievements recently and I think if she does badly now what little confidence she'd recently gained will disappear.

I am pretty sure a straw will break the camel's back and I will end up loosing it with him at some point, or just getting incredibly stressed and ill (stress usually manifests itself physically with me as I just try to ignore it and push on through - I've had my own mental health battles). But how can I effectively abandon my depressed brother? I love him dearly, and want him to be well, but he's come to rely on me so heavily that it's becoming too much. He's really not helped himself; taking so much time off work for spurious reasons and now he really needs the time off they are challenging him and his job is in jeopardy; him not taking my advice about not going cold turkey on the antidepressants without a plan to start a new one; just the assumption that we can constantly put our lives on hold. DH is being incredibly understanding - but I can even see him getting frustrated by my brother over the past few months. DH also had a huge mental breakdown last year and attempted suicide twice, he's only just got back on some sort of even keel about 6 months ago but is still recovering. Jesus, what if HE ends up breaking down again and then I've got 2 men in crisis to look after?! I've got my own full time stressful job to do as well, plus a neurodivergent daughter to keep on track. I'm terrified! I honestly don't know what to do for the best. He has very good friends but they don't live in the same city as him, but other than them and my parents, we're all he has.

What the fuck do I do?

This is a lifelong issue. My FIL’s brother sounds similar and lives with my PIL on and off, and they are in their 70s. I think you need to sit down with DH and discuss what your boundaries are as a family.

They should get him sectioned then if he is that severely mentally ill.

As might the OPs extremely vulnerable, recently head in noose partner whose illness you haven't bothered to mention yet, and who's currently having his bedroom invaded most mornings at 5am. If we're going to talk about regret should people be found dead, there is more than one family member to whom this is potentially applicable. People die suddenly all the time. Wonder how everyone might feel if OP were to fall under a bus tomorrow, knowing her last days were spent like this?

I think emotional blackmail and postulating nightmare scenarios, is not helpful, and in light of everything OP has done and is doing for her brother, while trying to also be there and supportive of her dh with his mental health issues, and her neurodiverse daughter going through GCSE's, plus struggling with her own ill health, is beyond unnecessary, and quite frankly bloody viciously thoughtless, ignorant and cruel.

I can only sympathise - my parent has a sibling that always ran to my grandparents for everything and now runs to my parent. Illness/depression/money, everything expecting my parent to fix it. It's too late now, they will never grow up. Hopefully it's not too late for your brother.

He’s manipulated you for most of your life. Your DH must be a saint to put up with him because you’re colluding in his behaviour.
Poor DD, the effects on her must be absolutely awful.
For goodness sake stop him dominating all your lives and tell him he has to sort himself out.

The OP doesn't have the right to simply get a family member sectioned, so this is not a practical suggestion. It isn't a service the NHS provide to order.

@LadyGabriella
Why are you talking such absolute rubbish, you clearly have no idea of how the mental health system works, or what it is like to care for someone with mental health issues, so why comment ?

Nobody needs to quote the OP. It's annoying, especially when the OP is really long. There is a campaign for MN to remove the facility for quoting the OP. I asked why you did it in case there was a reason for it, but clearly not.

Why would you post such a horrible emotionally blackmailing thing?

You have always been there for you brother and even though you have to step back for you and your family it doesn’t detract from you being a caring, loving person. Depression pulls people around you down with it and if your whole household is disrupted it’s not fair on anyone, Your brother is with the crisis team which is more than what your husband had, he has everyone on tenderhooks. He has voiced he doesn’t care about your daughter’s studying and only cares about himself, he can drive to yours but can’t drive himself to an appointment, he is capable he just wants everyone’s life to stop to accommodate him. I believe you are helping him too much and he needs to stand on his own two feet, he is not alone he is getting help professional help.

I'll do what i want.

Again, you don't get to tell anyone on here what to do.

What help is he getting at the moment?

I know a woman who's mentally unwell. She lives alone.

She has a social prescriber link worker. That person goes round to her house and helps her to access activities and groups in her area.

A person from a different mental health charity also goes around and helps her with cleaning her house.

It would be good for your brother to have these services in place.

@LadyGabriella is that you OP’s brother? you can’t be someone’s keeper 24/7 no matter how bad someone feels or life is, you only have control over your own actions.

Do what you like. But you'll be annoying lots of people if you quote the OP. Maybe you don't care 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yep, it annoyed me having to scroll through a really long post that I'd already read. This is common on Mumsnet though.

Of course I don't care. Why would I.

I care more about giving advice to the OP.

Why dont you actually offer some advice to the Op, instead of derailing the thread talking about how people are posting.

Did you ever think that YOU'RE annoying people by talking about other posters posting styles.

Would you stop derailing the thread now. You've said the same thing about four times. We got it the first time.

Social prescribing link workers are really great for community mental health support. They go round to people's houses.

I know a couple of people who have a link worker. They are great.

Blimey .. makes more sense why you've put up with this for so long when most people would have put their foot down years ago . Do you feel on some level like you're responsible because you gave him chicken pox?

Time to put a stop to him staying in your house at least - if that's all you can manage to do then that would be a great start. None of his problems are your fault.

he said he had a couple of sessions of CBT but he thought it was a waste of time,

You know who often says this? People with no intention of making any changes to help themselves feel better? PP have said that depression makes you very selfish/self centred. That can be true. Being single can also do this. HOWEVER - neither of those things make it inevitable that people will be inconsiderate of others. From what you have said, he has always been like this, and has spent his life not really growing up because his family bails him out whenever he feels he needs it. He cannot stay indefinitely and needs a plan which takes that into account. Which is his responsibility.

@inigomontoyahwillcox my DB was much the same, he lived with our DPs all his life because his MH was poor, stopped working, stopped going out except Dr appts, became very insular, didn't like people visiting the house. As his MH got worse he was, like your DB, was so focused on himself. I'd like to say him being so sheltered helped but it didn't, our DPs enabled him by allowing him to be utterly dependent on them.
What I'm trying to say is that, even when they're depressed, allowing an adult to retreat from life doesn't help them, it's much more comfortable to rely on family and not help themselves but once you let your DB move in with you that will be it, nothing will change.
I hope you can find the strength not to let him depend on you too much Op and that you and your family will find some peace.

Like sacrifice herself and her family against his needs for 40 plus years? I think that’s mission accomplished and time for her to take care of herself and son and daughter. As he’s family, maybe he could return the favour.

Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.

Exactly.

Put your own oxygen mask on first.

OP you need to prioritise yourself, your DD and your DH.

Your brother sounds as if he's being extremely manipulative. Depression doesn't make someone a saint. He is responsible for managing his condition, and trying to help himself as much as he can. But it's easier for him to say that therapy is rubbish and ADs make him ill, and run away to your comfortable house.

Stop enabling him. Look at your parents - they have managed to say no, we can't do this, we aren't well enough. Why do you feel beholden every single time to step in? Is it because all your brother has to do, is throw a few well timed comments in about hurting himself, and suddenly you're tip-toeing round him and bending over backwards for fear of upsetting him?

I say this as someone who's managed my own MH conditions since I was in my teens. There are time when I need extra help and support from my family, but the person with overall responsibility for trying as best as I can to keep myself well, is me.

You need to step back. Tell the crisis team the impact he is having on you and your family. Tell him that he cannot keep running to you and expecting you to act like his parent/carer. He has to take responsibility for his own MH. You have to be less available and not dive in to rescue him. If he says you need to come and pick him up then say no, it's not a good time for him to stay. If he threatens to hurt himself then tell him that you will call an ambulance and the MH crisis team and they will deal with him.

He needs to learn that whilst you are family and you want to help him, he cannot expect you to literally sacrifice your own family because he refuses to engage with medication and therapy.