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I can't cope with depressed brother being so reliant on me. Feel like a bitch for saying that.

789 replies

inigomontoyahwillcox · 02/12/2024 05:47

I'm so sorry - this going to be so long - but I need to get this out. I'm up with this awful cough/chest infection which makes it impossible to lie down and sleep. Been ill since last Tuesday. Have had virtually no sleep since then. Pretty sure a lot of you will think I'm a heartless cow, but I'm getting to my wits end.

Context. My brother (quite significantly older than me) has suffered from depression since he was a teen. He has been on antidepressants since then, except for a couple of occasions when he's taken himself off them for one reason or another, which have ended up in disaster. He lives about 2.5 hours away from me.

For some years now he has been spending more and more time at my house with my DH, DD and I. He lives alone and came to stay with us during lock down, and has often come to stay with us, sometimes for weeks, off and on since then when he's feeling low or had a crappy couple of weeks (e.g. work stress). I've always said to him of course he can come, how can I not, but he's often then stayed and stayed, prolonging his stay without discussing it with me - just declaring he's not going to go home for another week at the end of his planned stay.

He has a fantastic job in the civil service, but has had lot and lots of absences for various ailments over the past couple of years and they are understandably getting serious about his attendance. He seems to think this is very unfair and how they just don't understand. I've tried gently - but seriously - to explain that you can indeed be dismissed for repeated or lengthy absences.

In May this year he started getting some odd physical symptoms - balance issues/vertigo mainly (other very vague things like feeling cold, and out of it) - I rushed down there to him when this initially happened as he took himself to hospital thinking he was having a stroke. Ultimately anything serious was ruled out and after taking him to a few appointments for some further checks I drove him back to mine to stay. He decided that these symptoms were due to his antidepressant (that he'd been on for 15 years), so agreed with his GP to reduce his dose to an incredibly small one (questionable that it was even therapeutic anymore - it was 1/4 of the starting dose, he had been on double the starting dose for 15 years). His physical symptoms did clear up eventually - he put this down to this reduction in his antidepressants - I wasn't so convinced. I also voiced my concern that he was now effectively not on antidepressants and we all know how that had ended up in the past and that he needed to push to try another antidepressant if he didn't want to go back to his old one.

He eventually went back home and to work, and was there for a few months until he started experiencing stomach issues, now diagnosed as IBS (which I know is not fun - I've had it for years myself) and yet again took himself off work. He was working with his GP and a dietician and put on the FODMAP diet which he's still on. Again, he came to ours for a few weeks. His work were getting very ancy by this time and he started to do some hours remotely from ours as he had no choice. Eventually he went home again, he was home for a week only then for his depression to increase so I told him to get an emergency appointment with his GP who told him to double his dose last week. Well all hell broke loose (assuming side effects of increasing the dose). I've been ill for a couple of months now with all these bloody relentless viruses (also been very anemic for a lot longer and recently had a couple of infusions and currently undergoing tests to find out why - so you can imagine how rough I've been feeling), but last Tuesday I came down with proper flu (raging temp etc.) and have been in bed since and have been mainly off work (doing work when needed from bed). I never take time off work, honestly have to be at deaths door - have subsequently developed a chest infection and am on antibiotics. Got a call from my brother at 5:30am on Wednesday with him feeling awful saying I needed to drive down and collect him, after explaining I couldn't as I was ill asked to speak to DH and asked him to go. I said to DH that he couldn't, he had work plus he was helping me out with a work event in the evening which I obviously couldn't attend any more but he still needed to arrange some stuff and be there for a short while. I put my foot down and said he had to either drive, get the train or wait until we could drive to him and if he was in crisis to call his local crisis team immediately. He eventually said he would drive as he couldn't fit all the stuff he wanted to bring in a backpack so the train was out (so he'd get obviously decided at that point he was coming for a while).

Since he's been with us he has been waking me up every morning at silly-o'clock (e.g. 5-6), as he's been experiencing massive anxiety. I've been woken up three times now to him standing in our bedroom crying and saying he can't cope. I am getting about 2 hours of sleep per night due to this chest infection anyway, and have usually only just dropped off when he's waking me up. At this rate I'm never going to get better. DH had to stop him coming into our bedroom the other day when I had eventually managed to doze off. Anyway, called the local out of hours crisis team yesterday morning and sat with him whilst he spoke to them, they're seeing him this morning and have told him to register as a temporary patient at my local GP and they are hopefully going to make a plan going forward - e.g. moving to a new antidepressant (I hope). On the phone he said to them he was going to stay with me indefinitely (no discussion with me) and can't see himself doing his job for some months.

In the past when he's had a crisis like this he's decamped to our parents who look after him for months whilst he recovers and he finds a new job - but he's decided that he finds it too stressful to stay with them (they're getting on now as well). I can see what is going to happen. He is going to loose his job, loose his rented flat as a result and have nowhere to live but here with us. So, unemployed, living with us indefinitely. And what choice do I have?

It's really stressful when he stays with us - just the whole dynamic/routine of the household goes out the window. He has always been single and as a result his life revolves around himself, he spreads himself and his things around the house, and changes/moves/breaks thing (little things, but they all add up) and gets argumentative when I ask him not to do something. My home just doesn't feel like my home anymore; I can't spend evenings chilling out lying on the sofa in front of the telly with DH, as we often do, he's often lying on the sofa watching TV himself, he smokes although takes himself outside but his clothes smell of smoke. He is in our small spare room (well, he's on the sofa tonight for some reason) which we had just recently decked out as DD's study as her bedroom isn't really big enough for a desk; she's finishing her mocks tomorrow and has her GCSEs in May - she has ADHD and it's been incredibly challenging for her academically, but we'd really turned a corner recently and she's determined to get into 6th form, I'm so worried all of this is going to upheave her, stress her out and affect her performance; she's been so proud of her achievements recently and I think if she does badly now what little confidence she'd recently gained will disappear.

I am pretty sure a straw will break the camel's back and I will end up loosing it with him at some point, or just getting incredibly stressed and ill (stress usually manifests itself physically with me as I just try to ignore it and push on through - I've had my own mental health battles). But how can I effectively abandon my depressed brother? I love him dearly, and want him to be well, but he's come to rely on me so heavily that it's becoming too much. He's really not helped himself; taking so much time off work for spurious reasons and now he really needs the time off they are challenging him and his job is in jeopardy; him not taking my advice about not going cold turkey on the antidepressants without a plan to start a new one; just the assumption that we can constantly put our lives on hold. DH is being incredibly understanding - but I can even see him getting frustrated by my brother over the past few months. DH also had a huge mental breakdown last year and attempted suicide twice, he's only just got back on some sort of even keel about 6 months ago but is still recovering. Jesus, what if HE ends up breaking down again and then I've got 2 men in crisis to look after?! I've got my own full time stressful job to do as well, plus a neurodivergent daughter to keep on track. I'm terrified! I honestly don't know what to do for the best. He has very good friends but they don't live in the same city as him, but other than them and my parents, we're all he has.

What the fuck do I do?

OP posts:
LifeExperience · 06/12/2024 13:49

I have dealt with mental health issues my entire life, first with my brother and then myself. You could spend hours trying to come up with diagnosis after diagnosis, but the diagnosis is beside the point. The bottom line is that his behaviour is unacceptable and you must therefore no longer accept it.

You have been programmed your entire life by your father to take care of men's problems. In your father's mind, women serve and shut up. Your brother, for whatever reason, believes this, too. You must break that belief.

Your guilt over your brother is completely unwarranted. You are not responsible for ANY of the decisions he has made. You are not responsible for ANY of the decisions your father has made.

Your brother has confessed that he has thought of harming your daughter. That is the ultimate red line. Your brother has the audacity, the unmitigated gall, to expect you to take him back into your home (because he does think that) because in his mind he is the only person who matters, just as in your father's mind HE is the only person who matters. You and your daughter are nothing to them. I repeat, your daughter is nothing to them.

I have been where you are and the only solution is to go no contact. Completely. Your precious daughter needs that from you and dh. She deserves that. You cannot have your brother around your daughter again, ever.

You have nothing to feel guilty about, and bluntly, guilt is not the worst feeling. The loss of a child is the worst feeling. And please don't underestimate what a mentally ill person with disordered thinking might do--your daughter is not safe. Make her safe.

friendlycat · 06/12/2024 13:58

I’ve read all of your posts and have the utmost respect and sympathy for you.

But you have two parents who now urgently need to step in, irrespective of what your father said to you recently.

You have far too much on your shoulders and now these admissions about your daughter. Your Mother will simply have to speak with your father and help with the next steps. You cannot struggle with this burden by yourself.

DurinsBane · 06/12/2024 13:59

LetsNCagain · 05/12/2024 22:47

He's disclosed that he specifically feels like he's going to strangle my daughter.

Well, that'd be it from me. I don't know why you're in a+e with him, I really don't, sorry. That 53yo man would never step within 500yd of me or my daughter ever, ever again.

Sorry op but i just can't empathise why you keep pandering to this abusive man.

Leave him in a+e, go home to your precious daughter, keep the door locked.

Because he is very ill, and isn’t actually an abusive and/or evil man? Yes she can’t have him back in her house after this of course, but doesn’t mean she will just cut him off and not support him another way.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Potentialmadcatlady · 06/12/2024 14:02

You are doing amazing OP and I really hope this will allow you to draw a line in the sand ( potentially with the help of SS saying let’s keep your daughter safe) Use that as a massive reason to say enough, I have done enough and am doing no more.
I’m So cross with your parents and their apparent lack of support for their whole family. Your DB was their responsibility not yours. That was shameful of them.

I have two adult children. One has serious life limiting health conditions as well as asd, adhd, anxiety, depression and cptsd. Their father was an arse to me and now I can see that he clearly has asd or adhd or both too. I divorced him and put my kids first.
Then I took a stand and made sure that my DD was able to ‘escape’. I encouraged her to leave to go to uni. I encouraged her to stay away and only come home for visits. I took over all the care for my DS because he is my responsibility not my DD. ( ex husband did a runner after divorce and is only in their lives via occasional phone call) I’m not angel and I havnt always got it right but my DS is supported and gets the help he needs and my DD has a life of her own. It’s so not easy on me as it all falls on my shoulders and my own health is a bit crap because of it but I did what I needed to do as a parent and protected my kids. Everything is set up to ensure my DS is protected for his life after I’m gone and I have older adults in place to protect my DD from having to be his main carer. She will help but only if she wants too. It will be her choice.
As I said I’m no angel but I have tried. That’s what your parents should have done.
I would be using this current incident to draw a line in the sand, with your own family, with your parents and with your brother.
Enough is enough.
You are amazing and I wish you strength

user6476897654 · 06/12/2024 14:04

This all sounds incredibly tough OP. What will your daughter recall this period of her life in 20 years time? She is your priority. I’d be off to ikea this afternoon to get the spare room kitted out as her study and never having him back to stay I’m afraid. You’ve gone above and beyond for him, but you can’t carry on like this particularly with your DH being fragile.
If his parents can’t help more then the authorities will have to take over, but you must do no more.

murasaki · 06/12/2024 14:12

You must be exhausted. But you are doing the right thing. Are your parents aware if the latest development? I wouldn't sugar coat it and would tell them what he said about your daughter. They couldn't possibly argue you should take him back after that.

Channellingsophistication · 06/12/2024 14:16

You have told us all the things you do to support your brother which makes you an amazing sister. What has your brother done for you over the years…?

It is tough for him having mental health issues, but he is not your responsibility. You have done more than enough to help him. He sounds very selfish and entitled. Putting him before your DD,DH and yourself is not right.

I wouldn’t have him to stay with you anymore. You have to focus on your DD and her GCSE’s that is more important.

Tortielady · 06/12/2024 14:24

This OP's situation has something in common with that of the poster from last week with care issues in addition to other responsibilities. She was told, and it applies here too, that as long as things seem to be OK, social and healthcare services won't dig very deep. You have to make it abundantly, chillingly clear that things are not OK and you are in fact falling apart and you cannot and will not supply the solution to other people's casework problems, their shortage of beds, on-call psychiatrists or whatever else they are complaining about. At some point (and from what you're saying OP, you passed it some time ago) you have to dig your heels in and say "I'm not here to talk about your problems. How are you going to address my brother's needs and ensure the safety of my family?"

Sicario · 06/12/2024 14:37

Some time after cutting my brother loose, I received a phone call from a nurse or case worker on a psych unit about my brother. I stopped her before she could get more than 2 sentences out and said "I can't help him. I tried for years and it brought me nothing but trouble. I have my own family to look after. I can't help. Sorry." and I ended the call there.

I expect they were looking to arrange a discharge or some other support solution but I was totally done.

People who haven't been in this situation have no idea how bad it can get. Being related to someone is not a free pass to make you a default carer.

inigomontoyahwillcox · 06/12/2024 14:40

I am going to continue to advocate for him, and facilitate his support as much as I can without exhausting myself further - but this will all be from afar. I understand now that the hospital are discussing patent transport to his home city and are talking to the hospital there about direct admission. I'm not counting my chickens yet - but if this comes off (patient transport to his local hospital) I will be punching the air.

I am so humbled by so many of you that have shared your own experiences. That is really generous of you to do that with your own very painful stories. I am also completely shocked about how many of you there are out there who have struggled with such very sick relatives and the toll that has taken on your own lives.

A couple of people mentioned a website - Out Of The Fog (OOTF) - I am going to take some time to sit down and trawl through it when I get a chance.

OP posts:
Getupat8amnow · 06/12/2024 14:48

Do not advocate for your brother OP. The authorities will try to reel you in again. You MUST go no contact as you are too emotionally conditioned to help your brother and this is dangerous for your daughter.

Please just focus on yourself, your daughter and DH. Your brother can look after himself and if not your parents can intervene.

You do not want your daughter to turn to you when she is an adult and say she has realised she came last behind your brother because until right now she has but now you have a chance to change this and put the energy you put into your brother into your beloved daughter.

I wish you well OP, good luck.

ForeverDelayedEpiphany · 06/12/2024 14:58

DistanceCall · 06/12/2024 10:17

I just read your updates, OP.

Your brother has expressed violent ideation towards your daughter because he has been in the child position for his entire life, and he can't stand the thought that your daughter, or anyone else, will take the focus of your attention off him. (I have an aunt who is like that -- she expressed her shock and jealousy when my mother had grandchildren. It hadn't crossed her mind that anyone would require my mother's attention. She was in her 70s).

This seems to be exactly what your father does too -- he can't bear anyone, including his own son, taking the focus of his wife's attention off him.

And this has been going on for years -- you and your mother (and possibly many other people) have enabled it, with all the best intentions.

He wants to be in the position of a child being taken care of by a maternal figure for the rest of his life. You have a daughter and a husband and yourself who come first. This needs to end.

I think you've really hit the nail on the head here.

In some ways, I kind of relate to this but in my own perspective with it being me feeling like I'm in the "child" position and how much my own parents probably mollycoddled me a little bit throughout my life, including now in some ways, even aged 43. I think just because I was born 3 months prematurely made them overprotective of me, and it's stuck a bit.

It's a hard thing breaking out of and if it is "who" you are, I think it almost becomes a part of you. I don't think it necessarily makes you selfish per se.

schmeler · 06/12/2024 15:00

thewrongsister · 06/12/2024 08:12

He's 53 and his problems are from teenage years. Exactly how long are people supposed to wait for him to "be ready" to help himself by engaging with services? You need to read the thread before you comment further

Edited

So basically what you are saying is there is a time limit because you want ppl to 'move on' or in other words (what move on means) is shut up about it?

Why is there a time limit on trauma?

Maybe if you understood about trauma informed support you might get somewhere.

I have read the thread. Maybe stop assuming like you keep doing.

schmeler · 06/12/2024 15:05

dottycat123 · 06/12/2024 09:43

I am going to be blunt here as a MH nurse of 38 years this man is not experiencing a severe episode of mental illness over which he has no control, he has a personality disorder and his behaviour over years is totally indicative of this. That's not to say he doesn't have some depression as well but he will certainly have responsibility and insight into his actions. In reality the number of people who do something dangerous to others as a consequence of lack of capacity secondary to mental illness is tiny. He certainly won't be going to a secure unit, he hasn't done anything. If the MH team conclude he needs admission ( and it's a big if) he may have to go back to his home area where his registered GP is due to funding issues. I know I sound harsh but I find it so frustrating that there is an assumption that people like this are somehow not in control of what they are doing. OP it's good you are setting boundaries, stick to these and remember you are not responsible for your DBs life.

He doesn't have wandering womb at all. How sad that we are still using this crap to label ppl! 38 years of using wandering womb as a diagnosis! Shocking. Hope you retire soon.

Orangesandlemons77 · 06/12/2024 15:09

Whether he is treated near you or at his home you still don't have to have him back. You can say no.

thepariscrimefiles · 06/12/2024 15:17

schmeler · 06/12/2024 15:05

He doesn't have wandering womb at all. How sad that we are still using this crap to label ppl! 38 years of using wandering womb as a diagnosis! Shocking. Hope you retire soon.

Please explain what 'wandering womb' means in the context of OP's brother's illness.

TheGander · 06/12/2024 15:22

Where does dottycat123 mention wandering room? For information, it’s the literal translation of hysteria.

JennieTheZebra · 06/12/2024 15:31

I think she means that "personality disorder" =hysterical="wandering womb". While this isn't entirely nonsense (I'm actually doing my masters on something very similar), I do think there is certainly an element of emotional dysregulation and dependence within the OP's brother's presentation which may fit into a diagnosis of personality disorder. However, he needs properly assessing first-and a mood disorder is definitely not ruled out.

SheilaFentiman · 06/12/2024 15:32

TheGander · 06/12/2024 15:22

Where does dottycat123 mention wandering room? For information, it’s the literal translation of hysteria.

I think this was a misquote cos another poster mentioned it (and honestly I assumed that poster had her threads mixed up!)

murasaki · 06/12/2024 15:32

Oh i thought wandering womb meant he would find the nearest possessor of one to look after him.

TheGander · 06/12/2024 15:37

I agree @JennieTheZebra . It’s obviously not my place to diagnose but my brother has autism and while there is some overlap with OPs brother, he tends to avoid conflict and withdraw when his MH deteriorates, rather than seek me out.

Autumnleaveswhenthegrassisjewelled · 06/12/2024 15:42

murasaki · 06/12/2024 15:32

Oh i thought wandering womb meant he would find the nearest possessor of one to look after him.

I thought this too.

Sicario · 06/12/2024 15:43

Do think very carefully about taking on responsibility for being your brother's advocate. I tried this and found it was equally burdensome but in a difference guise. I would seriously suggest that you do not step into this role.

Like the late Queen telling Harry - you're either in or you're out.

Your brother, and the services he accesses, will continue to rely on you unless you step back completely.

If your brother is deemed to have capacity, that will include capacity to make bad choices and bad decisions. You will run yourself ragged trying to counteract his poor decision making.

It sounds like you are so deeply enmeshed in his life that you are having trouble with the concept of breaking free from the mess.

There is only one way out of this for you, and that is to remove yourself completely. Don't torture yourself about it. Just do it.

Honeycrisp · 06/12/2024 15:52

Autumnleaveswhenthegrassisjewelled · 06/12/2024 15:42

I thought this too.

I get that!

Wandering womb has another context, but MN really needs a similarly pithy term for males trying to hook the closest female for caring duties.

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