Not liking best friends child

[Drymonsoon]

Regular user posting under a different name.

I’m finding a situation really difficult and I’m just wondering if anyone else has been in this situation and how did you get over it.
My best friend is more like a sister. We have been friends since we were just starting school age and are now both in our 40s. Our families are very close as a result. We see each other regularly in the context of family meet ups, so since adulthood it’s never been that we really go out together or do things together, it is very much like a sibling that you see every week and the family weekend gathering.

Friend has 2 children. I adore child one who I will call A. Well mannered, lovely child who I have all the time in the world for. Child B is 5 years old and has always been more difficult- think huge tantrums when not getting her own way etc. She is very bright and switched on and there are no SEN issues. The problem is, friend and her husband adopt the gentle parenting/no demand with her because of fear of her huge tantrums that disrupt every situation. As a result, they have raised a spoilt child. She is rude, spoilt, ungrateful and dominates every situation. They have admitted they don’t like going out in public with her incase she kicks off. Friend won’t take her anywhere alone due to her behaviour. Poor child A is told off constantly if they deem he is ‘winding her sister up’ or doing something that might set her off. He isn’t, he’s just being a child. I can tell he has started to recognise the injustice in this but he takes it all very well.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to be around Child B. Her behaviour and the blatant poor parenting that is causing it, stick out like a sore thumb.
For example- child B had a piece of a family members birthday cake. She asked her dad for more and he said no. She promptly waltzes into the kitchen, sticks her hand in the cake and tears off a chunk that she now is stuffing into her face. She walks past her Dad smirking, to which he just rolls his eyes and goes on his phone.
Another example- Child A’s birthday and he has a small pile of presents off family. Child B dives in and starts tearing the paper off. When told no, she throws herself on the ground and screams like she’s being murdered. Her parents then tell Child A that B will have to help open his presents. Screaming and tantrum suddenly stop and child B starts tearing open poor Child A’s presents.

They constantly allow her to have her own way and give into her to avoid a ‘scene’, but it’s getting worse. I would never in a million years say anything to my friend or her husband, but I’m increasingly struggling to want to be around them or be at family engagements. I love child B, of course, but right now, I don’t like her very much.

I come away from time with them feeling stressed and annoyed, but I love seeing my friend and the rest of the family.
Has anyone been in this situation? Will the little one likely grow out of this? I actually believe that if they rode out some major tantrums and stopped being so terrified of her reactions, she could be a lovely kid. There are moments that she is gorgeous.

Is it just a case of me staying away until she grows up a bit?

You need to stay in your lane Op. you've said you don't want to speak to your friend about the child's behaviour so the only thing you can control is you which means reducing contact. Maybe offer to take the older child out alone if you can. I'm sure they'd enjoy it.

It’s not ok at all.

Surely as an adult you can differentiate between a young child and their behaviour?

Support one while not condoning the other.

It is a actually.
A young child is still a member of their community.
And if you're behaviour was having such a negative impact on others then of course you were unliked.

They're not going to like you are they?

As an adult I'd have assumed you'd be able to understand that.

I’d have thought that, in general, adults are capable of making allowances for young children as well as for other groups of people who may exhibit challenging behaviours through no fault of their own.

They have an adult nightmare coming their way. It’s going to be a long and lonely road for your friend if she parents like a fool. Kids need boundaries to feel safe and contained, it’s what makes them into sound human beings and not train wrecks later on.

I do actually really try to hide my feelings from her when she is being silly. I think I must do it quite well because she’s actually quite keen on me. She lights up when she sees me and we play together a lot. When she starts her poor behaviour, I I try to busy myself on my phone so I don’t give off any bad vibes or anything,
Please don’t get me wrong. I adore her. She is my best friends child so she is my family. I love her like I would a niece and I really do just want the best for her. I just struggle to like a lot of her behaviour.

Have not read the whole thread, but as a teacher for decades I can tell you that some SEN are not apparent until a child is older and struggles more socially or emotionally as their peers mature. Often round 9 or 10 things can become clearer. So the teacher can't give complete reassurance at this stage.

Allowances don't mean that the individual likes the child.

If someone is unlikeable. They're unlikeable.

Also some autistic children are very academic and focused on their learning. So that doesn't rule ASD out either.

Well, you do you. But we were specifically talking about a situation where an adult or adults made their dislike of a child known weren’t we?

A pp advised OP
”the child knows you don't like them. I was that child and it never leaves you”

to which you replied

“And that's OK if as a child you were unlikeable. Adults don't have to like you of like in this situation you bring nothing but problems.”

Very glad to hear that OP thinks differently. It’s natural to struggle with poor behaviour. I just think parents might be struggling too and possibly be at a loss here, rather than just being bad parents?

Also a parent of DC with diagnosed SEN and couldn't agree more.

This post highlights that, crucially, ND children still have/need to be parented and can't be allowed to run roughshod over other people's boundaries, their rights, their needs, their property etc.

Our children still have to coexist in a civilised society and it's part of our job to facilitate that, for their own good (and others').

A child doesn't 'bring problems' what a terrible attitude. A child has needs and it's the responsibility of adults to support those needs. It takes a village and all that. Far too many children grow up in villages of adults unable to see beyond their own needs.

No child is unlikable but plenty of adults are. Some grow to adulthood so broken that they are entirely lacking in compassion even for a small child. And even then, they'll point at the child and say it's them, they're the problem, not me. Tragic but thud us the broken society we live in.

Can I just ask why you think no child is unlikeable?
Surely that’s a very personal thing and you can’t really make that claim.

I don't see much evidence of a civilised society but ok. I see something different in the OPs post - I'm seeing a child trying to assert her boundaries according to whatever needs she has, and parents trying to make sense of that. It takes time to establish what those boundaries are in order that they can be integrated to society's expectations as much as possible. Time and compassion. Respecting boundaries goes both ways if a parent is to raise a healthy adult. As a parent if ND children you'll be very aware of the damaging effects of masking.

Of course they do.
Every tantrum is not an unmet need. Sometimes it's just a tantrum over not having what they WANT.
And some children are just naughty. And their behavior is unpleasant.

The behaviour has a knock on effect to those unfortunate enough to be around it.

Many many children are unlikeable.
And sometimes they come from unlikeable families.
Society is breaking because parents are failing to properly put children in their places.
They should not be raised to believe they are above all other importance.
They are members of society and should be raised to apart and contributors to society.

I really don’t know how you have interpreted what I have said about her in that way.
I spend a lot of time with this child and she gives off no obvious SEN behaviours to me, she has simply learnt that she can do what she wants, and if she is challenged she simply has a very dramatic tantrum until her parents give in, to which the tantrum ends immediately, like a switch has been flicked.

I actually feel it makes a mockery of genuine SEN to assume that every poorly behaved child must have an undiagnosed issue.

No child is unlikeable. An adult may not like a child but that's on the adult. I'm no therapist but if a child illicits such a strong reaction there's probably something going on for that adult that they may wish to address or not. I don't think any child should have to bear the dislike of an adult - that really is pathetic behaviour.

That's not to say a child's beviour shouldn't be addressed - and them to be supported. As I say, if a child has special needs, that might ge a long game rather than a quick fix. The parents need first to understand what's going on. The OP is no friend to this family.

I am a very good friend to this family, but I am only human and sometimes I struggle with things. I am also autistic, so you’d think somebody like yourself, who seems such an expert on SEN, would maybe be a little more understanding of why I might find her behaviour difficult to be around.
But your opinion means nothing to me, thankfully. The fact you’ve read your own little narrative into my post that doesn’t match what most are seeing, says it all.

A child can still act in unlikeable ways and I find it very strange that you don’t believe that. I’m sure there were people who didn’t like me as a child, as I’m sure there were some who didn’t like you. You may also be surprised to hear that teachers often find certain children that they teach unlikeable. Because people are human and you aren’t going to naturally like everybody you come into contact with, regardless of their age.

Right. That's sent a shiver down my spine. I'm not even going to ask what putting children in their proper place entails exactly - I've spent nearly four decades trying to forget but yep you have hit the nail on the head - that is exactly how neurodivergent children were treated. Many of us were bullied and abused by children and adults because we didn't 'get' the rules. They were forced into us by any means necessary. That often leads to abusive relationships as adults, chronic low self esteem and all the rest of it. I definitely know my place now tho.

I don't show any 'obvious' signs but what your describing is atypical behaviour that cannot be accounted for by parenting - unless you're talking about chronic neglect, good enough parents produce good enough children. This child is so awful you've made a post, that alone indicates she is beyond the boundary of 'normal' Her needs are greater than that of a 'normal' child. I'm not sure what you think SEN are OP. I don't want to sound facetious but we don't come with a wheelchair or a special lanyard

It’s clear that you have your own problems and that is clouding your view or causing you to maybe read something into this that isn’t there. I am sorry that that happened to you but I think you are way off the mark on this.

I have ASD but was parented the same as anyone else. I had to learn to fit into society. I had to learn the rules and how to live by them. There were certain rules that I had to abide by. They were non-negotiable. Rudeness, meltdowns and tantrums were not tolerated, my issues aside. My parents recognised that I had to learn to adapt to the world because the world wasn’t going to adapt to me.
So please don’t assume every SEN child grows into a struggling adult when parented as normal, because I am a very confident, self assured and successful adult and I have my parents to thank for raising me as they would have any other child. Because that’s what I needed.

By using our words....
Your issues are your own and not mine of anyone else's problem.

I actually work with ND learners in a SEN school and the biggest issue we face is people like you who have such low expectations and a belief on what they can achieve and their abilities to be integrated into wider society.

It's so sad to see in a modern world.

I have autism myself, which I have stated several times. So please don’t assume that I don’t know what SEN is.

Im actually going to step away from this now because we clearly aren’t going to see this the same way. You obviously have some issues as a result of your childhood which I hope you can make peace with.

I came on here asking for help and I think trying to avoid Child B for the time being is the way to go. I am hoping she will settle in time.
To all the people who offered sensible advice without trying to make me out to be some cruel and awful human, thank you.

I'm not an expert on anything and I find loads of people really annoying, adults and children. I have a low tolerance and you may do too. It's my issue. They are not unlikeable - but I may enjoy them better in small doses or specific environments. Finger pointing gets my back up, especially when it's at children and struggling parents. The pitchforks come out at times when we most need help. That's quite specific to being a mother.

and I have my parents to thank for raising me as they would have any other child. Because that’s what I needed.

But, with respect, that’s not what every autistic child needs OP. There is a huge range as you know. Many need accommodations to thrive - and by that I don’t mean their needs are more important than others, but different. I certainly don’t mean they need to get their own way at the expense of others, but they need understanding and in some cases may not be able for things a neurotypical child is, sometimes.