Uni suicide - tragedy but is this the only recourse for women that experience assault ?

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14060637/Oxford-University-student-20-killed-cancelled-female-friend-told-pals-felt-uncomfortable-sexual-encounter.hotlink

Superficially this is a tragedy and the sites is was the major factor for that led to it. However given the extremely low probability of criminal conviction of the university acting from a disciplinary point of view are women justified in using ostracism as the only till they have left for justice and as a warning to others that may consider assault a crime where there are in reality limited chance of consequence?

The woman concerned comes across as psychologically cruel and the coroner warns against 'cancel culture' but there seems more to this and perhaps the woman concerned was justified in talking to their friendship group at the very least as warning to other woemn?

Is this the social equivalent of a lunch mob with no proven guilt or the actions of a woman who knew there is typically no justice from authorities in such cases?

Only 2 people know with certainty what happened, and one of them is dead.

It could have been anything from a mutually agreed drunken encounter - to which one cannot give true consent - which Mr Rogers retrospectively classified as ‘unintentional but unforgivable’ to rape.

As PP said, Corpus Christi College, also the whole of Oxford University and the city, are full of signposting to help. The police will also point you to help with no questions asked.

We can’t know what the young woman told her friends or why, but if she was really traumatised then perhaps not one but two YP should have sought this help.

Nothing that happened between the YP excuses the former boyfriend starting a physical altercation, as seems well established.

That’s not the responsibility of his friends though. If he had done something sexually inappropriate it’s completely understandable they didn’t want to associate with him any more. It certainly isn’t women’s issue to solve. If men want support services for accidental rapists they’re free to campaign for that.

Discomfort - definitely just regret on her part.

Physical altercation - definitely a one sided beating up that the young man received.

We don’t have enough information about either, but it’s interesting where the consensus on this thread is.

For all we know she could have wanted it to be one night he could have wanted it to continue and pushed her made her feel uncomfortable which is why she went to her male friends for support not her female friends because that's what your told arnt you? If someone is making you uncomfortable tell someone it's certainly something I would have done and at their age we could call the local police who would have a word and tell them to wind their neck in (small town it was common for police to mediate thirty plus years ago)

Either way she I'd not to blame for his suicide the friend that fought with him needs to look at his actions but again I don't think he is responsible either people fight and argue all the time we should not be so mentally fragile that we cannot cope with that there must have been something else going on in his life thst made him react like this

Ultimately no one act should ever cause the suicide of another

We don’t know all the facts.

Interpretation of a statement means something different to each of us, and further as you go through different age groups.

It could mean both drunk had sex, but due to recent break up the female in this situation feels he took advantage of her vulnerabilities & sober she regrets it. Or he did take advantage and she was to drunk. We don’t know what happened, each of these have a slight twist on interpretation and the first one puts all the responsibility of her regret on him where as the second one is completely his responsibility.

Whats tragic is in both instances the people affected didn’t reach out for support - which tells me the university needs to ensure support is there.

Not at all.

People can have sex and afterwards wish they hadn't bothered which makes them feel uncomfortable. It doesn't mean they were assaulted.

I'd have thought most people wouldn't have talked about it but unfortunately some do over-share. Nobody could have anticipated the guy's reaction to his 'negative press'. She probably now wishes she hadn't said anything about it to anyone but I doubt she meant to cause harm.

Had he assaulted this girl, the press would have said.

It's sad because i can see both sides.

As a woman of you're anyway sexually uncomfortable, you're going to have the right to tell someone.

However if a man gets this said about him, to the extent where his friends turn away from him, I can see that he would find it unbearable.

This is why when I was young (after I was in a similar incident) I stopped having sex with any man in my local area altogether. Because it can ruin reputations. Mine and his

Sex causes too much pain. It can completely ruin the reputations of both people.

I only dated men from far away after that. So if anything went wrong, it wouldn't affect me locally.

The way it was worded it sounded like he did push her into doing something.

Didn't he write in his note that his actions were unforgivable

It is a universal truth on MN that the silent treatment is abusive

Surely widespread sending to Coventry (with not being able to put your side or apologise if necessary) is even worse?

You have no evidence to the truth of either of your interpretations.

No it’s not the responsibility of his friends, that’s why it’s important to refer to appropriate channels and let them deal with it, he could have been referred for counselling.

We didn’t even know what he’s done, and we cannot make assumptions, just became some shitty blokes get away with straight up rape. Only the 2 people involved know what happened and they may have a different interpretation of events. This is not a clear cut case and that’s why it’s better for others not to get involved.

Indeed, just illustrating the assumptions made on this thread - that the woman was lying and that the man must have been beaten to a pulp. Suspect the truth is more like - there was a sexual assault, and there was a bit of pushing and shoving.

Interesting how so much focus is on the young woman when it appears another young man actually physically attacked him. Unacceptable and probably criminal in any circumstance and yet he's not the one being blamed.

Misogyny.

DM are reporting from the misoygistic standpoint that this young mans life was ruined by an evil woman and thats why he killed himself.
It is a tragedy whatever did actually happen BUT if this young man did allegedly do something to his friend sexually that made her uncomfortable she had every right to seek support from friends and they had every right not to spend time with someone who they may have considered a predator.
I have a DD at Uni and from what she tells me the sexual angle isn't unusual but other men supporting the "victim" is.
Either way its very sad that events led to him killing himself and I feel for his family

As a woman, do you trust those appropriate channels?

An inquiry into the case revealed 'a concerning culture of social ostracism', or 'cancel culture,' among students which involved 'the exclusion of students from social circles based on allegations of misconduct, often without due process or a fair hearing,' said the Coroner.

Disgusting thing to say. A woman never needs "due processing or a fair hearing" to end a friendship and talk to her friends about her own experiences.

Sexual predators don’t usually have any remorse and are so manipulative that having other women ‘warn’ about them does nothing.

Exactly.

The uni needs to learn from this is that it is fundamentally important to have good student services for dealing with all sexual incidents. Many really don’t.

We dont know what happened. For one man to fight another over it and 2 friends to not speak to him I'd assume she was raped or assaulted, simply being "uncomfortable" doesnt explain that behaviour.

A tragedy for all the young people involved but interesting how a female forum still wants to blame the woman.

Nothing superficial about it. God love his poor family.

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

https://gript.ie/the-horrifying-tale-of-the-late-cancelled-alexander-rogers/

This is quite an interesting take on the situation. I found it via Google I don't know anything about the site or the authors.

I don’t trust other students deciding that they are judge and jury and as a pp says, using moral outrage to bully.

‘Appropriate channels’ as we all know are far from perfect but it is all we have.

Although we don't know the circumstances I do think it highlights the puritanical discourses that run through our universities- particularly the posher ones.
And I have to say, white men are fair game for cancelling.
I am in no way saying that the girl wasn't a victim- we just don't know- but even the slightest whisper and the poor young man is ostracised.
The girl now has to live with the dreadful culmination of what happened- I actually think that's a horrendous cross for her to bear throughout her life.
And I feel devastated for the young man and his family.
It's all so hypocritical: those doing the cancelling will open the door for men in dresses to invade women's spaces; they'll look the other way when a different culture treats its women and girls appallingly but hold straight, white men to far higher standards.
This is what needs examining, this nasty culture masquerading as kindness- it's anything but.
It's not the fault of the individual students- they're inevitably swept along by it.
I feel so sorry for this young man and, sadly, I'm not surprised.

How ridiculous. It's not for the university to police friendships as in some totalitarian dystopia. Even if he was found in a court of law to be innocent they don't have to be friends with him. People are allowed to choose who they spend time with.

Bullying is not ok (e.g. the physical attack) but 'excluding' from a social circle happens and is life.

If it hadn't happened at this time on this issue it would have happened at another time. No-one is universally liked! Friendships come and go, sometimes gently and sometimes brutally. Kids need to learn to be more resilient.

Just want to highlight this post.

We’ve got an entire thread debating something which the coroner said didn’t happen.

This is the mail pushing their own agenda.