Uni suicide - tragedy but is this the only recourse for women that experience assault ?

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14060637/Oxford-University-student-20-killed-cancelled-female-friend-told-pals-felt-uncomfortable-sexual-encounter.hotlink

Superficially this is a tragedy and the sites is was the major factor for that led to it. However given the extremely low probability of criminal conviction of the university acting from a disciplinary point of view are women justified in using ostracism as the only till they have left for justice and as a warning to others that may consider assault a crime where there are in reality limited chance of consequence?

The woman concerned comes across as psychologically cruel and the coroner warns against 'cancel culture' but there seems more to this and perhaps the woman concerned was justified in talking to their friendship group at the very least as warning to other woemn?

Is this the social equivalent of a lunch mob with no proven guilt or the actions of a woman who knew there is typically no justice from authorities in such cases?

I don’t like a lot of these replies. Women have sex all the time, they aren’t in the habit of then telling people it made them uncomfortable. A lot more context would have been given I’m sure. Something happened that wasn’t right. And she’s allowed to voice that to whoever she wants.

Suicide is tragic. It’s also a very extreme reaction. Perhaps he felt guilty about what happened?

Bullshite. If she had reported him nothing would have happened. Neither the College nor the police would have done anything. He left notes admitting his “unforgivable” behaviour. It’s not her fault.

I do not think anyone can be held accountable for his death bar him.

@Nomdejeur do you think his so called friends who ostracised him should take no responsibility for his death?

‘Justice’ is administered by the law. People can’t go round in n search of what ‘feels like justice’ to them. That’s the road to complete lawlessness.

I won’t click on the DM, but from what other posters have said his ‘crime’ was that he made her feel uncomfortable, not an assault. That sounds very woolly, unevidenced, and in any case is not a crime. So the ostracism was bullying by his friends, probably an over-zealous interpretation of the exhortation to call out other men for inappropriate behaviour. But the effect was tragic.

I am shocked by the number of posters on this thread saying if a women experiences sex assault then she must report it to the police (despite low conviction rate and harms to the victim of the process) but otherwise shut up about it. It seems once again a woman must be cancelled and silenced to prevent her sharing her experiences in case it makes men look bad.

I found it ironic that an on one article it stated judging with no facts...which the articles have all done..

The friends and fellow students effectively acted as judge juror (and executioner).

All we know is the encounter made her feel "uncomfortable" - no one knows what that's supposed to mean except the young lady involved.

"Uncomfortable" could just as mean regret as it does something more sinister

Two people who are equally drunk - are equally responsible if they then go on to have consensual sex.

exactly. And he acknowledged that something unforgivable had happened.
But let's blame women.Same old, same old.

@MarketValveForks · Today 06:47

Attributing any suicide to having been caused by a specific circumstance goes directly against Samaritans guidelines.

Good thing that the Samaritans don't precide in the Coroner's Court.

The daily mail is not known for its balanced and responsible reporting.

The facts of the case have also been reported in The Times, Independent and Guardian; they also quoted the Coroner who attributed this young man's suicide to the ostracisation from his friends and peers following the woman discussing the event with HIS friends, who then spoke to him about it.

He also left a suicide note. I think he knew more about why than you do.

Someone who isn't mentally ill already does not respond to a situation like this with self-harm or suicide.

There are many incidences of people who are facing custodial sentences committing suicide without having previous or, current mental health issues. A quick search will show you that your assumption is false.

Oxford students aren't always the most mentally chilled and balanced people due to the extraordinarily high academic pressires.

I hope you are working within mental health services.

Your reply is inaccurate and misleading. If you want to sound authoritative then it's better to do a bit of research rather than stating your own thoughts.

The coroner should have called it what it was, bullying and harassment. This was mob rule punishing someone without cause or proof. Because they could.

There may be problems in the criminal justice system in terms of sex crimes but mob rule isn’t the solution. Women do not benefit from mob rule, we usually suffer from it.

This was acts carried out by adults with privilege. I hope this ensures they can never abuse others again. There should be a criminal investigation.

We don't know enough to discuss this tragic situation.
Especially we don't have any evidence that the girl was "psychologically cruel" or "calculating".
My reading of the very limited information is that two days after the incident an ex-boyfriend of the girl had a "physical altercation" with Mr Rogers. So the ex maybe asked her what happened- we don't know when the ex became an ex - could have been over this.
Two of Mr Rogers' friends then met with the girl and what she told them upset them. They then told Mr Rogers they needed "space" from him.
It seems like the boys approached the girl, not the other way round. Ex first, he then told Mr Rogers off, Mr Rogers' friends then wanted to know why. Girl was then having to defend her ex for his actions in approaching Mr Rogers.
We don't know what he did. He perceived it to be "unforgivable", but different social groups have different standards.
The Coroner, as reported in the Independent, said that suicide has multiple factors.
Mr Rogers wasn't alone in the world - he had friends and family at home he could have called. Should men say to their friends "don't like what you did there, but well... let's go to the library to finish that assignment". How should any friend behave in such a situation?

Would Mr Rogers have felt better if the girl had gone to the university or the police? It's not at all clear that whatever he had done was actually a crime. Would his death be less tragic if he were convicted of a sexual assault of some sort?

Isn't there a campaign encouraging men to call their friends out when they misbehave? Do we think that saying "maaaaaate" is all that is required?

The Coroner is right to say there needs to be a discussion about how to handle such situations.

How is she to blame for what other people did when they heard what she had to say?

I read it as she broke up with her boyfriend, went out with her friends and ended up having drunk sex with him. And that is what she was uncomfortable with and what he saw as doing something unforgivable.

It was just a mistake on both parties, but one that is made by many young people on daily basis.

The thing that made it worse was her telling her Ex, and other male friends so they did attack and to 'cancel' him. I don't understand why she didn't speak to her female friends about what happened.

It's funny how those people who 'cancelled' him before he died are now raising money to help other young people who are thinking about suicide.

Hopefully all the people involved in this will think more carefully about how their actions impact others.

Unintentional but unforgivable? This girl is not responsible for this boy’s death. Had she reported it the emphasis would all of been on her and why it wasn’t “that serious”. Why bother. She did something else. How could she or anyone else have predicted he would kill himself. It would be convenient to blame her, but unfair. He was mentally unwell, clearly.

Uncomfortable could just as easily mean regret after the event. Did something she feels embarrassed about afterwards. Or it was just bad sex. It doesn't mean he necessarily did anything wrong, pushed any boundaries etc. It could be that he wasn't someone she would ordinarily have chosen to have sex with. For whatever reason, that night she did. Afterwards, she feels a bit stupid and awkward because they have damaged a platonic friendship. She expresses that as discomfort to a bunch of other young men, including a ex-boyfriend.

No one will ever know the truth. It is a tragedy, and one which will have a ripple effect throughout all of these young people's lives.

There are many incidences of people who are facing custodial sentences committing suicide without having previous or, current mental health issues. A quick search will show you that your assumption is false.

If they are suicidal then they have mental health issues. Being suicidal IS a mental health issue. What you mean is not having recognised mental health issues which is a very different thing.

This is a categoric tragedy of a young man with great promise and life ahead of him.

The situation appears to be pretty standard amongst students working their way into adult life, the fact he ran for a suicide charity indicates some connection to that particular cause, and most students when faced with social issues won’t harm or take their own lives. They will seek support, there is much more to this story than we know.

I hope the other students involved are being given professional support and help.

The thing that made it worse was her telling her Ex, and other male friends so they did attack and to 'cancel' him. I don't understand why she didn't speak to her female friends about what happened.

How dare she talk to her ex and male friends! She should have just shut up, or maybe speak to female friends because that doesn’t count, only men count.

No, I don't think his friends are responsible for his death.

Except she didn’t tell her friendship group, she told his. And they ostracised him as a result. She had plenty of other options including reporting to the Uni, and going to the police if she felt it was warranted.

What a ridiculous comment.

If someone says they are ‘uncomfortable’ with a sexual experience my question would be to what extent did both parties understand the importance of consent or that consent can be removed at any point? I tried to find a recent report I read about this but failed, but the jist of it was that it seems consent is shockingly badly understood.

Is it? Why shouldn’t she have told whoever she wanted to?

Just a reminder:

Well I will just say to all those on here blaming the girl and/or the friends (FYI, I can't imagine in this situation there can be a clear demarcation between his friends/her friends especially when she has an ex in that group - it is possible to have friends of the opposite sex), you are doing exactly the same, if not worse, to them. Worse in so far as you are not at all involved or affected by the events in question, but still feel you can make accusations and bully them online by calling them awful things.

I hope none of them do feel responsible, as we may well be looking at further suicides.