Thread 11 Starmer: Will that Phone Call Be To Harris or to Trump? (the decidedly superior looking cats thread)

[BIossomtoes]

New thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5195566-thread-10-starmer-first-female-chancellor-delivers-the-budget?page=40&reply=139578573

@derxa can I ask how many farmers you personally know who are likely to be caught up in iht. You've acknowledged that it doesn't affect you, so I'm curious about where your anger on this is coming from. I know a few farmers, but not well enough to ask about their finances (which are none of my business) and I would genuinely like to understand who and why this will effect.

I'm assuming it won't affect those who have rented for generations.
It won't affect those who own small farms.
It won't affect those who hand it over to the next generation 7 years before they die (retirement age?)
It won't affect those who put the farm in trust, protecting it for the next generation.

It will affect a small number of farms that fall outside these groups, but who are they, and why won't they be able to pay 50% less tax than other businesses?

On assisted dying, from my point of view with a severely disabled very close relative, absolutely not.

We need to invest in ensuring every single person has a pain free, kind and calm end of life.

You seem to know all about it. I haven’t a clue if any of my neighbours will have to pay IHT. Probably not except for the families who own multiple farms. Larger arable farms in the East of Scotland. Many in England and especially in the SE. I won’t be asking anyone about it.

@derxa thanks for replying, but you haven't really answered. You say you are angry on behalf of farmers, then mention 2 who won't be affected. You also haven't answered why you amuse such strong language - venal, hate, dread...
I'm struggling to understand.

I like it. I particularly approve of the 10 year qualifying period. And you must be resident for that and be able to prove it. No subletting or no qualifying for a discount.

I only know what I've read, trying to take the emotion and incorrect information out of the equation. The above is my understanding, which seems reasonable to me, so I'm not comprehending the anger and rhetoric saying it's a bad thing.

I could be very wrong on my understanding which is why I'm asking, so things make sense in my head.

That seemed like a genuine question.

Changing people's minds is a very hard thing to do. Asking people, putting yourselves in their shoes etc is all key to how people change their views.

Sorry - use not amuse in above post to derxa. On phone so can't edit

And me

It’s actually similar to how I felt after the Brexit vote. Devastated in general. It’s the one thing that farmers could rely on- that farmers could pass on their farms to their children without IHT.
Why can’t you understand that I am angry on others behalf. I am not envious of other farmers who own farms over £3 million. I think good on them.

I'm not jealous of them either. I just think they should pay IHT. Like the rest of us, if we meet the criteria. And we don't get favourable payment terms either.

But then Dsis and I paid Dutch IHT without grumbling over my mum's estate - cutoff is currently about 25k Euros, was less in 2019.

Another one with splinters in my bum in regard assisted dying, I sat by my Dads bedside for many weeks he died in such pain, the hospital did the best they could but to much time was spent waiting for doctors to prescribe pain medication it was horrific, my mum died in a hospice she wasn’t in pain it was peaceful & dignified I still can see the pain & agony etched on his face I prayed so many times for god to be merciful, but I’m still uneasy with assisted dying.
💐 for anyone who has had unfortunately experienced the same.

But the money you received from your mother’s estate is an extra. Paying inheritance tax didn’t mean you lost your business, home and way of life. It’s that simple.

Neither will these farmers lose their livelihoods. The ones affected are a small subset, and they have options. And how did farmers cope before IHT on farmland was scrapped in 1984? Were they all losing their livelihoods before then? Of course not.

I have far more sympathy for the tenant farmers whose landowners are using their best land for solar farms - now those people really are having their livelihoods destroyed.

I'm seeing a lot of sentiment here and not much rational thought.

The only issue I have is with “Target” they could wriggle out of it would prefer guaranteed 1 for 1 replacement.

Yes, we have local tenant farmers who have farmed there for generations who are being forced out for a solar farm - I’m 60 and they were there before my time. They’ve been offered a land swap but miles from their home.

Too subtle that it was only your response and me reading it 5 times that I realised it was the spelling - which I might add I'll now get right 🫣

Nothing this government does will be criticised by you. You have absolutely no idea whether people will lose their livelihoods or not.

Now you are being unfair and rather silly

I believe you come from a country where all out war has been declared on farmers leading to many protests which have on occasion turned ugly. The Netherlands used to be a proud farming nation. My grandfather imported Friesian cows in the 1920s. Texel sheep are some of the most valuable in this country.

Western European countries seem to be hell bent on getting rid of agriculture. China on the other hand are ramping it at a dizzying pace.

I note you carefully bypassing my question about what farmers did before 1984, when the IHT exemption was brought in.

I'm happy to criticise this government and have in fact done so. But I'm not criticising them on this.

As my entire family (Dad, husband and brother) lost their livelihoods when the steelworks were closed under the Tory government and having lived through the loss of the colliery and the steel works (a highly profit making site at that closed for political purposes) in our small town I know exactly what it’s like to have your community destroyed and the living that sustained generations of my family for over 120 years wiped out.

36% of children in this country are living in poverty and wealthy land owners are more concerned about tax avoidance than helping making things better for those children. The likes of Clarkson and Dyson and co are not helping the cause of those farmers who may genuinely be affected by this and certainly not making me or virtually anyone I’ve spoken to sympathetic towards them.

Ah well derxa maybe Jezza will crowdfund and you can contribute.

I really hope it will settle down for you emotionally.

Land was cheaper and margins were not so tight. People knew they had to plan for succession. This new tax has landed like a ton of bricks.

@derxa I understand that you're angry and upset, and I don't want to diminish how you're feeling. (Honestly!). But you're writing as if every farm/farmer/farming family is going to be affected, which simply isn't true.

It's a small number who will be - and they'll pay less than 'normal' households who qualify for IHT, and they will also have a lot longer to pay the tax.

So I think your anger/upset is misplaced.