They don't want us to have a choice over death do they?

[Hunnymonster1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2lyl8jrvlo.amp

This is so bloody annoying why are we so backward compared to other countries? Other countries have this sorted like america.In some states, belgium, holland, Switzerland.
They are not gonna allow this to happen are they? Which means the rich will go and pay dignitas and the poor will suffer. I am starting to get so annoyed by the mps of this country
Am I being unreasonable into thinking that they are backwards and should have given maybe the British public a referendum on a subject matter so important to individual people. If not a ref why is our country so backwards

Yes
There is lots to think about
I was only thinking of people who want to commit suicide,so they could do so pain free ,
I hadn't thought about the old or people with disabilities being pushed into something they don't want .
And like you just said you are living a good life after an attempt,and so am I .so maybe it isn't the answer

Wonderful post @ComingBackHome

I didn’t know about those awful stories of people being offered assisted dying in place of deliverable feasible care.

I had heard of the atrocious unethical treatment of a Canadian Paralympian (who had been disabled in the course of military service) who needed a ramp put in to her home. On the phone, enquiring about the progress of this relatively simple adaptation for her to increase her mobility, she was offered medically assisted dying. She hadn’t raised the topic- the council worker suggested it!

Canada is unsafe for women, the disabled and the elderly, it seems.

Wonderful post @ComingBackHome

I didn’t know about those awful stories of people being offered assisted dying in place of deliverable feasible care.

I had heard of the atrocious unethical treatment of a Canadian Paralympian (who had been disabled in the course of military service) who needed a ramp put in to her home. On the phone, enquiring about the progress of this relatively simple adaptation for her to increase her mobility, she was offered medically assisted dying. She hadn’t raised the topic- the council worker suggested it!

Canada is unsafe for women, the disabled and the elderly, it seems.

This.

everyone I know who has cared for someone they love who has had dementia is pro euthanasia. I would love to write into a legal doc what you have written. My dad cared for my mum for 10 years with dementia - was horrific for all of us. He ended up being diagnosed with terminal cancer and was “pleased” as he knew that would get him. He had told us if he ever got diagnosed with dementia he would “take matters into his own hands .. whilst he could”

Maybe people should be able to opt out of ever being approached about AD similar to organ donation. Safeguard could be that they could change their mind while ever they have capacity to do so

But it is so much more complicated than that, several people have raised some really good points on the potential damage to society, the impact on attitudes to disabled and elderly people, the effect on already inadequate social and palliative care in the country, along with examples of this happening in other countries where AD is legal. Did you read them before writing your response? For once I agree with Wes Streeting, as an absolute minimum we should be providing free and good quality palliative care to everybody before this is on the table.
Care for the elderly is already in crisis, we have a falling birth rate and an aging population. Be careful what you wish for.

My mum and I are catholic,and it's not what we would want for her ,her dementia is very bad ,

I think it's disingenuous to frame the debate in this way. The vast majority of people would of course love to have a system whereby people in the positions you outline could choose a painless death. The debate is whether that can be done in such a way that is safe for the rest of society (in all the ways that many have outlined here), and whether we think this country has robust enough social, medical and palliative systems to implement it.

I wonder how many of those who are against assisted dying have seen a loved one or friend suffering at the end of their life… I’m guessing few.

I'm glad MPs have a free vote to bring in their own and their constituents experiences, rather than just following a party line. I'd prefer it for more votes.

I'm wary of how well the government can write this type of law and mixed feelings in general with my experiences. If it is to come in, I think it has to be something an individual brings up themselves, not something brought up by medical professionals or council workers or any other professionals - as evidenced by many of the articles, that can bring a lot of unneeded distress and distrust at difficult times and - while the workers may not think so - it can come across as judgement for people for continuing to live.

Maybe something like the traffic light system mentioned earlier on the records so people can pre-empt whether they want it brought up in certain situations and those who don't at all can have the peace of not having that. I agree the default needs to be it not being brought up by professionals. There are plenty of ways of informing people if this type of law passes of their rights without it being in a situation where someone is asking for other medical help. I think it would risk putting people off getting medical help if they thought that such a conversation could come up at any point.

All I can say in response to this, often repeated and baseless assertion, has already been very well said by @bobafett2020

I think it's disingenuous to frame the debate in this way. The vast majority of people would of course love to have a system whereby people in the positions you outline could choose a painless death. The debate is whether that can be done in such a way that is safe for the rest of society (in all the ways that many have outlined here), and whether we think this country has robust enough social, medical and palliative systems to implement it.

I was on the fence until I saw this programme and looked further into what's happening in Canada. Now I'm strongly in the no camp

I have. I also have an incurable cancer. I'm still very much against it

My advice for anyone 18 or over, but mainly for middle aged, people who are seriously ill or older people. Get an Advance Directive in place. You can download templates online. It's not just for elderly people. Think about what you'd want if you had a bad accident, a stroke, a neurodegenerative illness, serious car crash, dementia etc. This advice is for everyone - pro and against AD, religious and non religious, anyone and everyone.

Things to consider:

Resuscitation in the event of a cardiac arrest in which you'd be unlikely to recover reasonable function/self care abilities.

ITU and intubation/treatment in the event of a catastrophic accident which would leave you in effect minimally conscious (vegetated) or with severe disability.

Treatment you'd want if you suffered a severe stroke/subarachnoid haemorrhage if you'd be unlikely to recover reasonable ability/self care abilities.

Artificial feeding via PEG (tube directly into stomach), TPN (via blood vessel) or supplementary feeding if you couldn't swallow very well.

Repeated courses of antibiotics for chest infection.

Pacemaker for heart arrhythmia/disease.

Life saving surgical procedures if you had a poor quality of life/poor self care/very advanced age.

A description of how you want to life your life/what you want to be able to do/what you are not prepared to accept etc. Everyone will be different.

These issues tend to be more urgent as you age. Talk to your next of kin and family members about what you want as you age/fall ill/become disabled or less able. If you have an Advance Directive your family can't over rule this. You should appoint Power of Attorney for health if you can, but still put an AD in place as families can and do over rule people's wishes, especially if doctors don't know what they are. I nursed someone who had refused placement of a PEG tube, but her daughter insisted and she lived for the last years of her life paralysed, unable to speak or do anything for herself although she was conscious.

Get it signed, dated and witnessed by an independent person, a neighbour or friend will do. Lodge it with your GP surgery and check they've included it on your health record. Re-sign every two years. Keep a copy for yourself.

Prolonging your life in a miserable and painful state unable to do your self care abilities and not wanting to be here can be avoided.

Good point about professionals not raising it; their position is a powerful one and that could be experienced by an individual as pressure to conform.

What nonsense. Have you sat with a terminally ill parent and watched them whimper in agony? Plead to be allowed to go?

Shut up with this nonsense. It will be for terminally ill people who simply wish to die without agonising pain. A choice my mum didn’t get.

Yes I did ,but I have feelings and opinions about my own life and and death and I'm allowed to share them even if you disagree, but thanks for asking

Totally agree seen someone dear suffer with no chance of recovery it's heartbreaking and should not be allowed, you don't let your animal suffer but human are left to suffer, it's not right.

Can I ask how your pain levels are?

For my mum it was the last 2 weeks of indescribable pain.

They kept her alive only to prolong the pain. Every waking moment was agony.

What was the point of that?

.

By the end her arms went up and down and up and down in the last 3 days. She was unconscious but the body takes over to die. Macabre and devastating to watch as her daughter. Wait until you see it one day, you won’t forget it, I promise you. She would not have wanted me to see that. She lost the ability to speak, to swallow, no saliva, but still we had to wait for every last molecule of life to be squeezed out of her. Fuck modern life. She should have been allowed to die much much earlier. I know she would not have wanted this. She loved us too much to put us through those final 2 weeks. And her screams, her pain, her sadness, her frustration. I have no more words.

If that's the case, why bother with World Mental Health Day? The Samaritans? Counselling? Psych meds? Did Norwich City FC waste their time?

Did CAMHS waste their time when I was a suicidal teen? Did Adult Mental Health Services waste their time when I attempted to electrocute myself? Was my autism assessment and diagnosis a waste of time?

Clearly, all these signs up on bridges with the Sams phone number on are a waste of time and we should replace them with Futurama-style suicide booths, because according to you suicide is OK, no matter how preventable it was, as long as it can be spun as a "dignified death".

Absolutely this, it really pisses me off when people say they don't agree or want assisted death, well that's good for them but not for me, everyone should have the choice, their own choice, not somebody else's.

I am not seeking to be disingenuous at all. I strongly believe in allowing everyone the dignity of choosing a painless peaceful passing rather than forcing ourselves and our loved ones to lay in a bed waiting to die, often screaming in agony and lacking even the tiniest semblance of a quality of life.

We should all be entitled to excellent palliative and medical care but sometimes there is literally nothing else that a palliative care or medical team can do to relieve someone's suffering and take away their pain. There needs to be a serious discussion about this and there needs to be an improvement on the way that people are now left to suffer through a lingering, horrific painful death and lacking the dignity that we give to our beloved animals at the end of their lives.

In what way is the choice I want to make about my passing anyone else's business but mine. How does me and others having that choice somehow make the lives of others less safe. I and others who feel the same way as me would be exercising freedom of choice and that's fine if you don't want that for yourself but you don't have the right to deny other people that choice.

I'm so sorry to hear what your mum and you went through @PlopSofa. I can relate; the last few months of my mum's life were so difficult for her (and us to witness). I will not go into details but it is these latter stages where I felt medicine had failed my mum.