They don't want us to have a choice over death do they?

[Hunnymonster1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2lyl8jrvlo.amp

This is so bloody annoying why are we so backward compared to other countries? Other countries have this sorted like america.In some states, belgium, holland, Switzerland.
They are not gonna allow this to happen are they? Which means the rich will go and pay dignitas and the poor will suffer. I am starting to get so annoyed by the mps of this country
Am I being unreasonable into thinking that they are backwards and should have given maybe the British public a referendum on a subject matter so important to individual people. If not a ref why is our country so backwards

I'm am so sorry for your losses and for the unimaginably awful way that your mum and dad died. I feel the same way as you. I want everyone to have a choice.

I agree; the vote is based on conscience but I don't think that a MP can represent his constituents in this way. And now that Streeting has said that he will vote against AD, I wonder how many other politicians will follow suit. Even if they ultimately vote against it, I can't see this issue going away.

@DappledOliveGroves dementia is a very big fear for a lot of people.
But it’s not covered by AD. (Consent being a really huge issue there - eg no way you can consent to AD if you can’t recognise people agd live on your own)

All the people who jump in front of trains ,(and end up injured,)
They could of had a dignified death ,
Suicide is painful however you do it ,
If there is a chance for people to do that pain free,they should be allowed to do that

@ComingBackHome read the post. I would consent now. I DO consent now, that if, in 30 years time, I have dementia and I no longer recognise my loved one (or whatever other criteria I specify), you give me an injection and I die. You don't ask me to consent when I'm 80, non-verbal and in the throes of dementia.

I don't think dementia should be covered
I think you should have capacity at the time of death
Because there's no way of knowing if someone with dementia has changed their mind

I couldn't agree more. My mum had excellent palliative care in a hospice with wonderful, compassionate nurses and doctors. But despite the drugs she spent weeks in horrible pain and discomfort. If I put my dog through that it would be considered inhumane.

What about the people who survive, get help and go on to live happy fulfilling lives?

I'm in the US and am grateful several states have Death with Dignity laws. The State of Oregon was the first and set firm criteria for its use.

I have read it.
But consent in such subject cannot be given 30 years earlier.

It has to be at the time of (which is why Dignitas for example wouldn’t contemplate saying Yes to a dementia patient). That’s for the simple reason that you might well change your mind.

I understand that YOU are sure of it.
But most people change their opinion multiple times in that time frame. And I’m going to say even more so when ‘the end’ is getting closer.

Tbh reading all the dismissiveness, lack of understanding and sloganism from the pro-assistated death posters has solidified my position against it. 'If you don't want it don't have it!' 'Safeguards can be put in place!' 'Moral grandstanding!' It's utterly bizarre to me that people this naive and detached still exist. It's not even hypothetical. The cases from Canada are horrendous. Our country is not in a place where this could be implemented safely.

Yes
Me actually
Well not a train ,but something different.
And I'm so glad I'm alive to have children
But I was 14 ,and to legally die you would have to 18.or maybe 21.

@Daisymay6 - what patronising twaddle. Have you watched someone die of dementia? Lose their personality, no longer recognise their child? Lose the power of speech? Become doubly incontinent?

I will not live like that. I want an advance directive that if I get to the point where I have progressive dementia and don't know my children, that I don't want to be here. I am happy to be challenged by professionals as I set out my directive. I am happy to give reasons. I do not fear that somehow, if I did get dementia, that I would suddenly "change my mind". Because my mind would not be my mind anymore.

I am not having my children go through what I went through, watching their mother slip away from them, and grieving for years for the person they've lost, whilst a body still sits and breathes in front of them. It is barbaric. I will absolutely not go through that.

If you don't want to run the risk of "changing your mind", then don't. Don't have an advance directive. But how dare you take the choice from me?

Are you saying that AD should also apply to healthy 30yo that want to commit suicide?!?

Please tell me I misunderstood.

Otherwise, that’s an amazing exercise showing how a law on AD for terminally ill patient can become something …. Totally different.

There are plenty of people who attempt suicide as a young adult or older. Many go on to be motivational speakers or start a family or even just get the help, support and medication needed to live a good life. I have had a really awful, traumatic life and I failed in my attempts and I'm pleased I did. Had AD been around I wouldn't have been here.

@ComingBackHome - who changes their mind? When my mother started getting dementia, she begged for me to suffocate her with a pillow and tried to work out how to kill herself, when she moved to a care home. She did not want to live through that and I'm so angry that she had no choice. Her suffering (and the rest of the family's) was horrific.

And Dignitias does take dementia patients. Except that you have to be in the earliest stages, where you still have capacity. Which means you have to die years before your time. But so be it. I would rather die years earlier, than go through the hell of dementia.

My mum has dementia really bad .
Ask Mumsnet to check my posts if you don't believe me .
She wouldn't even let them near her to x-ray her arm this week
She wouldn't consent to it going in plaster and they couldn't make her so if she had decided 30 years ago to euthanasia,who exactly is going to do that ,if she is screaming and shouting no , because she doesn't understand what is happening

@Daisymay6 - so you have an advanced directive that they give you an injection in your sleep. Or put a sedative in your drink and then give you a lethal injection.

And that's very rude of you ,
I've been to hell and back with my mum ,you should think before you post
It might be anonymous,but it can still cause upset

@DappledOliveGroves I think your post was answering to me rather than @Daisymay6 ??

And I’m not stopping from anything at all.
I’ve explained to you why dementia isn’t part of the law proposal.
Even if the AD law was going to pass, it would not protect you and no one will come and liberate you.

It’s not me stopping you from getting what you want.
Its just what the current proposal is.

So not like Canada where they use the same products than for a death sentence in the US then? Which if I understand well isn’t leading to a pain free calm death (but it’s quicker)

@ComingBackHome I know what the current proposal is and I think it's appalling. But I'm praying that it gets through and that it expands and develops as the years progress, so that it's akin to Belgium or Canada or somewhere with liberal assisted dying laws.

What is happening?

Sort out end of life care. Stop leaving that work to charities and start taking it seriously Invest in healthcare, and social care And THEN, we might want to talk about it. Otherwise, its just cutting healthcare and social care cost with a new name.

I agree with this. Also the little incentive that currently exists for pharmaceutical companies to develop new pain relievers and alleviative treatments to improve and extend end of life would dwindle to absolutely none. Given the lead-times on pharmaceutical research and the underfunding of medical research this amounts to an implicit abandonment of an aspiration to make end of life care humane. Add to that that our under/ un-resourced health care system may as well be working with aspirin and wet paper towels as it is and it is a bleak picture. I would not vote in favour of the proposals for that reason

I’m against assisted dying. In fact @Hunnymonster1 your opinion that not introducing it will be bad for ordinary people couldn’t be wider from the mark if you tried.

I think it’ll be very bad for the poor elderly, the mentally ill and those with disabilities.

Look at what’s happening in Canada. What they’re doing there is scary.