Sad our church turned its back on dd

[TeenLifeMum]

Dd has been to church all her life. At one point we moved to a different church that suited us more but we made lovely friends etc and dd was attending youth group until she was 15. Suddenly she was less keen but focusing on GCSEs so we didn’t push it. With clubs etc for the other dc, regular attendance dropped a bit but we were fairly relaxed.

I believe in god but have always had issues with “the church”, but put that aside to be with people of faith.

I recently learned why dd stopped going to youth - they did a full session on how they should pray for gay people in the hope of healing them. How they are so angry about people loving each other is beyond me.

dd is gay. Her girlfriend is loving, kind, polite, and caring. I want all my dc to have loving healthy relationships so have no issue and naively thought others wouldn’t care. Turns out they do. Two of her closest friends stepped away due to her being gay (parents we’d met through church) and now she understandably doesn’t want to go to church, and neither do I.

I’m angry. I hope they’re really proud of themselves from their high horses. On the off chance they’re on here - no, you’re not good Christians.

Thanks for humouring my rant.

When this subject arises I prefer to practice Romans 14:22
“So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.”

Shame religious organisations can't do the same when it comes to consenting and loving same sex relationships.

AgileGreenSeal
“So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.”

But do you really practise what you preach there? Because you have done an awful lot of telling us about what you believe on this thread, and last time I checked I wasn't God (I can't answer for any of the other people here) although l would accept that there is that of God in every man.

The context of Romans 14:22 is specifically Sabbath observance and consuming or not consuming various foods and drink.

My full sentence was
“When this subject arises I prefer to practice Romans 14:22
“So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.”

Please don’t partially quote me in a silly attempt at a “gotcha” 🤣

It's not really a silly gotcha though, it is? Because if believers should keep their beaks out of other people's lives concerning what they do on the Sabbath, why are they not instructed to do the same on other issues? The world would be a much better place if believers kept their faith out of other people's lives.

It's the proseletysing urge that comes over them that is so trying. Well, that and persecuting people who are not exactly the same as they are, or at the very least regarding such people as damned and making no secret of that belief either.

Of course how you live your life is your responsibility, not mine or anyone else’s!

You do you.
and I will live as I see fit.

Part of how I see fit to live my life is to tell people about Jesus, about repentance and about the judgement that’s coming. I make no apology for doing so as that’s what my Lord has commanded me to do.

Anyone can accept or reject what I say. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'd rather you and your deity respected other people's belief and didn't try to offer something that they didn't ask for. Wait for people to come to you and ask to listen to your words. Why isn't that enough for your God? As I have said, the arrogance of it is astounding. I don't go out telling people to stop believing because it's all nonsense - that would be disrespectful in the extreme. I just go quietly about my life as an atheist. If the topic comes up or people ask, I will speak the truth about my beliefs - but I wouldn't dream of imposing them on people in any way.

Nor am I imposing anything on anyone.

“If the topic comes up …”

It came up here. 🤷🏼‍♀️

That's true, it did.

But I have zero time for people on street corners who get in my face about their faith. At least the JWs in my town stand quietly with their pile of literature and wait for people to come to them.

That's not what I said at all, but Jesus loves you and so do I.

What do you mean, "that's not what I said"?

You don't love me. What on earth could make you believe that you do?!

believe that THEY (and those like them) are somehow the only people who's interpretation of the bible is correct.

This is not what I said, or indeed meant.

Why do you think I don't love you?

Christians are meant to share the gospel with non believers - I won't bore you with the Bible quotes on the subject.

@Bogstandards are you now denying that you think your interpretation of the bible is the only correct one?
you surprise me as you don’t strike me as someone who would be into pluralism.

Also don’t you believe Jesus is THE way, the truth and the life?

When I was deluded an evangelical Christian that was very much taken to mean that Christianity, and our particular type of it, was the only truth.

I think you can safely assume that in Europe and the US there is no one who hasn’t heard of Jesus. Many of us grew up in devoutly Christian families, and then grew out of it, and now recognise religion as something needed to restrain violent human impulses at an earlier stage of civilisation.

I know what the Bible says about sharing the gospel. It just proves to me that Christians and the God they have made do not respect other faiths or people who have none. It's an intrusive, rude world view embedded in a profound and misplaced sense of superiority.

And yes, I feel the same about proselytising atheists.

Because of every single comment you've made on this thread.

Claim to fame here - I was confirmed by Rowan Williams, before he became Archbishop! He is friends with my grandparents, too. And whilst on that subject, my deeply religious Nan and Grandad fully support my wife and I, and our child. They love my wife and child the same way they love me. When we got married my Nan very bravely took our wedding photos to share with her church group, not knowing what the reaction would be. It opened up a wonderful conversation where almost every friend had a gay member of the family but had been too afraid to share with others for fear of judgement. The unspoken became something to be celebrated between them, their friends, their families and their God.
They are "real" Christians. True Christians who DO love all.

I think it boils down, really, to whether people believe that Christianity is an exoteric or an esoteric religion. Christ seems to have been of the opinion that it was exoteric, and most churches since him that it is esoteric.

Every so often good stuff happens, like Alfred translating the bible into language that was 'understanded of the people' rather than confining it to a language not even understood by many of the church's priests, to try to make it more actually catholic and universal – whereupon a small section of the people who can now read it decide that they alone can read it correctly, everyone else is at fault, and they have a bounden duty to correct the ones who are Getting It All Wrong.

(I think your grandparents sound like a Great Good Thing, and Hurrah! for their church group.)

I don't dislike gay people. The sweetest, funniest, most creative people I can think of are gay. I am actually bi myself.

With respect @User364837 I can't be bothered.

I don't dislike gay people. The sweetest, funniest, most creative people I can think of are gay.

But you believe that if gay people have sex with someone they love, they are doing something wrong.

You believe gay people should not be allowed to get married.

You believe in a God who tells you this is how things should be.

You believe in a God who denies a group of the people he created an essential part of living a fulfilling human life.

You believe in a sociopath.

@pointythings If you love someone you don't lie to them. Jesus said "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow." We all have our crosses to bear and all are lost without Jesus.

You aren't addressing the point I'm making, which is that a deity who wilfully creates people who are gay and then tells them that they are not permitted full participation in their own humanity is a monster.

There's no love in that. There's nothing deserving of worship either. Your God is no better than a parent who has delicious chocolates in the kitchen cupboard but will only allow two out of three of their children to eat those chocolates - for no rational reason at all but that they say so. If a human parent did this, it would rightly be called abuse.

That's your opinion @pointythings, I don't believe my God is a monster. Most men are hardwired to sleep around and procreate with as many women as possible, but this behaviour is also not encouraged.

It's an intrusive, rude world view embedded in a profound and misplaced sense of superiority.

I'd say trying to save as many people as possible from an eternity filled with suffering is an honorable cause. 😊

There is a HUGE difference between someone procreating with as many people of the opposite sex as possible/being unfaithful etc. and denying someone ANY expression of love and commitment at all. If you can't see that, I despair. Your God actively denies gay people the opportunity to love, marry, have children and enjoy sexual pleasure. And then he claims to love them. That is objectively cruel, and as per my chocolate analogy it would not be tolerated in human society. I know you won't change your mind - you have faith. Your belief in a monstrous deity makes me sad.

And then 'trying to save' - that's just sticking your nose into other people's lives. It's a total lack of respect. It's 'I'm trying to save you because I know better'. That is arrogant, not honourable.