Sad our church turned its back on dd

[TeenLifeMum]

Dd has been to church all her life. At one point we moved to a different church that suited us more but we made lovely friends etc and dd was attending youth group until she was 15. Suddenly she was less keen but focusing on GCSEs so we didn’t push it. With clubs etc for the other dc, regular attendance dropped a bit but we were fairly relaxed.

I believe in god but have always had issues with “the church”, but put that aside to be with people of faith.

I recently learned why dd stopped going to youth - they did a full session on how they should pray for gay people in the hope of healing them. How they are so angry about people loving each other is beyond me.

dd is gay. Her girlfriend is loving, kind, polite, and caring. I want all my dc to have loving healthy relationships so have no issue and naively thought others wouldn’t care. Turns out they do. Two of her closest friends stepped away due to her being gay (parents we’d met through church) and now she understandably doesn’t want to go to church, and neither do I.

I’m angry. I hope they’re really proud of themselves from their high horses. On the off chance they’re on here - no, you’re not good Christians.

Thanks for humouring my rant.

@ElleWoods15

I don't know much about Methodists but I do know my RC friend who was divorced was allowed to marry in a Methodist church.

It was important for her to have a religious ceremony and the minister was really supportive.

]]

This is why people struggle to find the right church.

It’s very interesting isn’t it
@CrunchyCarrot the bible’s teaching on divorce must sit very uncomfortably with you if you are someone who chooses to condemn the act of homosexuality (not homosexuals themselves of course) based on a perception of what the bible says about it.

I would argue biblical teaching on divorce is more plentiful and clearer than on homosexuality.

With divorce of course we wouldn’t want wives these days to stay with abusive husbands. Society has changed and moved on right. Oh wait…. 🤔

I got married too early and quickly because of biblical teaching on sex and cohabiting before marriage. I stayed for too long in my abusive marriage because of my faith and Christian teaching on divorce. Then I realised one day how twisted it was that I was hoping and praying for my husband to have an affair because then the bible said divorce was ok and then I wouldn’t be judged at church.

it’s all so twisted.

I did leave him which was the right and brave thing to do, I’m at peace with the decision. But there were those at church who have judged me (or possibly worse just been incredibly sad for me/us) despite them not knowing what goes on behind closed doors.

Back in the day, it mattered that people were married and everyone more or less knew who people's parents were. These days there are other ways of finding out. Like the pork and shellfish prohibition, that rule was embedded in the technological possibilities of its time. It's now been overtaken by events. And yet so many people refuse to flex with the practical implications of progress.

Yes, that is exactly why trying to go by the letter of a bible that has not been changed (apart from translations) for over a thousand years simply doesn't work. There is too much now which did not exist when it was written and so is not in it. IVF, for example: what did Christ have to say about that? Nothing whatever, because it didn't exist. Plastic surgery? Ditto. The use of electricity (on the Sabbath)? Not a word. And those are comparatively simple examples.

I am surprised the C of E is still doing this. Sounds more like something evangelicals would do.

OP, it's a fully understandable rant, but these organizations have a long history and won't always be aligned with what we personally think is "right". There can also be a big difference between the organizations formal position, and how individual members behave and operate at a local level.

I'm Presbyterian (NI) and this was an issue several years ago when I lived there, around the time of this event.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-44412860

Sadly in the case I'm personally aware of, the lovely person involved was not treated well. I felt really uncomfortable. It was also crazy in that some of the "full members" are well known drug dealers with terrorist affiiliations. It doesn't make a lot of sense!

There is a thriving evangelical branch of the C of E

I can't remember what you said in the last post, since it was deleted but I thought you might find this helpful (from the comment above).

https://maturinglifeinchrist.org/should-christians-obey-old-testament-laws/#:~:text=and%20commit%20adultery.-,It's%20simply%20programmed%20into%20who%20we%20are%20as%20God's%20image,commit%20adultery%2C%20or%20to%20steal.

What do they need to be healed of exactly?

if hell exists then it would be a great party

Also no @Daltonbear1

https://www.billygraham.ca/answer/my-friend-laughs-at-hell-and-says-he-looks-forward-to-it-because-all-his-friends-will-be-there-is-he-spiritually-hopeless/

Billy Graham? JFC, if he's in heaven I definitely don't want to go there. 😂

I have read worse tosh than this, but not often.

"Are Christians being arbitrary in their application of the law of God? Well, the church for 2,000 years has answered this with a resounding NO!" translates as "we've denied being arbitrary for two thousand years so obviously we can't be being arbitrary."

Get along with you: that's not helpful, it's casuistry – in the sense "specious".

And with regard to your other post: so Billy Graham went to hell? Doesn't astonish me, but I am seriously surprised he came back to tell people about it with authority.

Billy Graham? JFC, if he's in heaven I definitely don't want to go there. 😂

Each to their own! @erwachen

I am seriously surprised he came back to tell people about it with authority.

He used the Bible as authority @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

I have read worse tosh than this, but not often.

If that's what you chose to highlight from the the article, I don't think they've done a bad job.

I have attended several large, conservative evangelical churches. It's very normal and common for children of churchgoers to stop going at some point, or come sporadically, or have years of non-attendance and come back as adults once they've made their own decisions - I have never heard of such people being shunned or disowned by their churchgoing friends and family, even when they adopt lifestyles that are contrary to church teaching. The approach would be to keep an open door, maintain the friendship/relationship, talk about the issues that the person has with church teaching if said person wants to and is open to it, and pray for them.

Christians don't disown unbelieving relatives and friends - this is something that's often enforced in several other major religions, but not Christianity. I think you're confusing evangelical churches with the Jehovah's Witnesses or Latter Day Saints?

Also, the churches I was referring to are actually becoming more and more popular with young adults who are exploring Christianity for the first time, and don't have family connections to the faith. E.g. one that I attended in the centre of a city was frequented by hundreds of young professionals who were new to the city and wanting to find out about Christianity for the first time, or explore a completely different stream of Christianity to the one they were raised with.

Perhaps you should read through all of Jesus's words on the Old Covenant, if you're confused about why Christians aren't required to follow the Mosaic Law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_the_Old_Covenant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Covenant

Yes @sparklyfox and also -

Bogstandards
"I am seriously surprised he came back to tell people about it with authority."
He used the Bible as authority

And the people who wrote the bible had been to hell and were able to speak about it with authority. Ri-i-i-i-i-ight.

Bogstandards
"I have read worse tosh than this, but not often."
If that's what you chose to highlight from the the article, I don't think they've done a bad job.

The entire thing is tosh, but that's a nice obvious example of "we've always said it so it must be true" as a completely crap argument. I fear you haven't read my other posts.

The church stated as fact that the sun revolved round the earth and that heliocentrism was heretical. Was that true because they'd always said it? The bible states as fact that the earth does not move, in eg 1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, Ecclesiastes 1:5 As far as I know that was where things still stood in 2008 when the pope cancelled a lecture because people planned to go to it and protest to him about the official party line that the bible says the earth does not move, therefore the sun must go round the earth rather than the earth round the sun. See where taking the bible as an ultimate authority about everything leads you!

As I have said before, you can find something in the bible to justify any rubbish you feel like, if you just look hard enough and have had a good theological education. Since you can find passages in the bible which contradict other passages in the bible, the bible is a bit of a busted flush as an ultimate authority.

Sorry @sparklyfox but just because it didn’t happen in the churches you went to (good), it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen elsewhere in the likes of evangelical Anglican and Baptist churches. I can assure you it does.

Honestly, leave that church. Find one that is inclusive. I have a friends inc the vicar) in a local church, CofE. They would be horrified at such bigotry. Your church leader needs a book called: A Bigger Table by John Pavlovitz.
I’m not a believer but I have friends who are, they would be shocked.

Yay, another vile homophobic youtube channel.

It's really only the Catholic church that believes the Church and the Bible are both authorities, that the Church has the job of interpreting the Bible, so the Church in essence trumps the Bible. Evangelical Christians believe that the Bible is the final authority, regardless of how it's been taught. Tradition is helpful, but it is not the final authority. So it doesn't matter if the Church taught that the sun revolved around the earth for centuries. What matters is what the Bible actually says.

Also, the Bible absolutely does not "state as fact" that the earth doesn't move. How you got that from those verses I have no idea. You don't seem to have identified the genres of the Books you are quoting from, which would help you interpret them properly.
1 Chronicles 16:30 is about stability found in recognising God's authority, not in the sense of the earth being static. The Psalm verses (which are poetry and therefore using poetic language) are about God's reign being unshakeable. Ecclesiastes is believed to be written by King Solomon, and expressing a perspective on the seeming repetitiveness and futility of life on earth, hence references to the repeated cycles of nature such as the sun rising and setting day after day. It isn't supposed to describe the actual astronomical process in a scientific sense.

Here's an article from your favourite hate site about how gay Christians should be ostracised.

Anecdotal but telling, about a large, popular CofE church to which a friend of mine had been going for many years as a member of the congregation in good standing. My friend discovered one weekend, to his astonishment, that he was able to heal a woman's migraine by the laying on of hands. Delighted, he went burbling home and told his wife and some other members of the congregation, his friends, about his wonderful experience.

The senior members of the congregation decided that, since he had not consulted his vicar before taking this step (the vicar was on holiday and not available until ten days later), the power to heal must have come from Satan rather than from Christ, and told him he was no longer welcome at that church. (They didn't consult the vicar about this either, it has to be said, but he ratified their decision when he came back.) Since the place had bouncers to keep out the homeless, he elected not to turn up for the service next Sunday anyway and start a fight, but instead came to me in great distress and with a sorely troubled mind. Luckily I was able to point him at a fine High Church vicar I knew who held confessions, and who was able to convince him that healing sickness was not a sin.

But my friend's wife must have accepted the instructions of the church, because when he went home after being told the decision against him he found that some of the congregation had gone round in his absence and helped her put all his possessions into bin-liners and stack them outside the door, and they wouldn't let him into the house to speak to her. She later divorced him.

All terribly Christian.