Sad our church turned its back on dd

[TeenLifeMum]

Dd has been to church all her life. At one point we moved to a different church that suited us more but we made lovely friends etc and dd was attending youth group until she was 15. Suddenly she was less keen but focusing on GCSEs so we didn’t push it. With clubs etc for the other dc, regular attendance dropped a bit but we were fairly relaxed.

I believe in god but have always had issues with “the church”, but put that aside to be with people of faith.

I recently learned why dd stopped going to youth - they did a full session on how they should pray for gay people in the hope of healing them. How they are so angry about people loving each other is beyond me.

dd is gay. Her girlfriend is loving, kind, polite, and caring. I want all my dc to have loving healthy relationships so have no issue and naively thought others wouldn’t care. Turns out they do. Two of her closest friends stepped away due to her being gay (parents we’d met through church) and now she understandably doesn’t want to go to church, and neither do I.

I’m angry. I hope they’re really proud of themselves from their high horses. On the off chance they’re on here - no, you’re not good Christians.

Thanks for humouring my rant.

You remind me of my mother, she did the whole hate disguised as love thing too. In fact I think some of the things you said in your now deleted post about homosexuality being an afflication she herself said almost verbatim to me.

I haven't spoken to her in years. Thank you for reminding me why.

Hate disguised as love is much worse than plain, old, run-of-the-mill hate. I'd have much more respect for the "Christians" in this thread if they just laid their homophobia bare. Owned it. The thing is, no one wants to be called homophobic. No one wants to be called racist. They're bad words. No way are these "Christians" awful people! They hold their homophobic views close to their heart, but do everything in their power to try and make it sound like their views come from a place of love or concern. We're not stupid, though - we can see your homophobia for what it is. You can convince yourself as much as you like, we see right through the bullcrap.

I wonder what it takes to choose to believe in a deity who is effectively monstrous.

Especially since there are so many people of faith whose God actually IS all loving, and that love is manifested in how those who follow him/her live their lives.

It takes years and years of brainwashing. Preferably from birth. And ideally with underdeveloped critical thinking skills.

This is why Christianity is so dangerous. I once heard a Christian man say that if a woman is being beaten by her husband, she should stay with him - because the Bible says women should be submissive, and she'll be rewarded for her meek suffering in heaven. He said that if she left her husband, she'd be safe and might live to a ripe old age - but then God would burn her in hell for eternity for disobeying her husband and committing the sin of divorce. It's a truly horrific religion.

So here is a podcast from a formerly gay atheist who became a Christian. I think he speaks about this far better than I ever could, as a heterosexual woman. Here he is explaining the Bible verses pertaining to men, women and homosexuality.

Well, he was totally wrong. And I speak as a woman who was abused by her husband. I did agonise about getting a divorce even so, but I knew that I could not possibly stay with a man who was like that (he wasn't a Christian). A Christian husband should treat his wife with respect and love, not beat her. If he is doing that he is very, very wrong.

He was gay? So now your on to promoting "ex-gay" conversion therapy shit?

Very, very interesting. You absolutely should have divorced him (DV survivor here, too). However, divorce is sinful according to some (most?) bible translations. Same with homosexuality - the classification of "sinful" is entirely dependent on which translation you choose to believe. Does that mean you are picking and choosing which parts of Christianity you adhere to based on what best serves you personally?

Choosing to suppress his sexuality doesn't make him an expert on this topic.

Hear hear! The "gay is bad but I tolerate (yuck) you" to "let's fix the gays" pipeline is inevitable.

Conversion therapy? No it's not that. Have you watched the video?

Also, I am bowing out of this thread now.

Because people are finding it harder to be respectful, and are showing you up for the homophobe you are?
It would be very unfortunate if you ducked out of explaining why you can have a divorce but I can't love my wife...

CrunchyCarrot
A Christian husband should treat his wife with respect and love, not beat her. If he is doing that he is very, very wrong.

Oh, let me fix that for you!

A decent husband should treat his wife with respect and love, not beat her. If he is doing that then, no matter what religion he professes or pretends to profess, he is very, very wrong.

I don't really see what being or not being a Christian should be thought to have to do with being a nasty little abusive shit.

If you want an illustration of how toxic the results of homophobic Christianity can be, think about the huge sexual abuse scandals that have emerged in recent years in relation to the Catholic church (priests' sexual abuse of young boys). There is a definite correlation between repressing your natural sexual identity, and turning into an abuser.

Sexual abuse scandals in the evangelical community are also common. I've lost count of the number of leaders of big evangelical churches (especially in America) who used their power to sexually harass and assault women.

It's a dark picture. The obsession of conservative Christians with sexual purity (defined in a very narrow and troubling way: heterosexual monogamy with the husband having authority over the wife) leads to all kinds of fuckedupness behind closed doors.

In my experience, if a church is not gay-friendly, their attitudes toward women will be problematic as well.

I grew up in a conservative evangelical church and I saw firsthand how a community that seemed very caring in some ways could be absolutely cruel toward vulnerable church members who were perceived as falling out of line. At the same time, if a powerful male leader was discovered to be guilty of, say, sexually abusing his daughter, it was all hushed up and the male leaders closed ranks to deal with it 'privately' (which is what happened within the Catholic church as well).

Conservative Christian dogmas on gender and sexuality have a lot to answer for.

I am no longer religious, but I do know now that not all churches are like the one I grew up in. Hallelujah for that!

So you use the Bible to preach homophobia, but you ignore the Biblical prohibitions against divorce? Can't you see your hypocrisy? Are you Anita Bryant, by any chance?

Can I just say as a thank you to a number PPs this thread (notwithstanding some of the hateful things that have been said by hateful posters on it) who have given me real hope for some parts of the Christian church in the U.K..

I’ve had my own horrible experience of being shunned by an evangelical CoE church, for getting divorced (this was some years after the experience I referred to above with the crazy vicar’s wife and a different church).

I haven’t been to church other than ‘high days and holidays’ in the home church I grew up in (an inclusive church, not the one with the crazy vicar’s wife or the shunning one) in a few years. I’d been chatting with a friend of mine recently and we were both thinking that the Methodist sounded a much safer place where we thought perhaps we could come back to organised Christianity. Those posters on this thread from the Methodist tradition in particular have made me think that’s so.

To those who have questioned why even go to church in this day and age, I don’t really have an answer, but I do have a faith (in a loving God), and personally I’d like to find community again with people who feel the same.

Yep- this is what I was saying earlier. If you don’t want to have a relationship with your children and grandchildren if they are gay/bi/in a relationship with someone who is bi/are not homophobes- then this is a brilliant way to achieve that.

.

👏👏
It is very telling that @CrunchyCarrot decided to bow out of the thread at this point, especially considering all that they have said. I would go as far as to say it is cowardly, shameful behaviour.

Wondering why you edited your comment in that way, @DuBoo ?

You said he was gay. So yeah, conversion therapy.

Edit: sorry, meant to quote @CrunchyCarrot s post.

Because I really really try not to get into aggravating dialogue with these people, so when I posted it I just thought, why bother?

I grew up in this world (c of e, Sunday school, church choir, youth groups, bell ringing- school where there was speaking in tongues in assembly and laying on of hands at break time, always being told I was off to hell etc)

my wife has CPTSD from her childhood in the born again community with her parents-

so I know it’s pointless. I’ll end up annoyed and they will continue to feel justified.

That makes sense. I grew up in the church, too, although I'm glad to say I never experienced this hate (or at least wasn't aware of it). You're right - engaging with these people won't change a thing. Which is proven by the fact that two of the loudest (homophobic) voices on this thread decided to suddenly opt out of the conversation as soon as their views were challenged.
Playing god by deciding what is or isn't sinful - based on personal experiences - is shameful, but not unexpected.

Indoctrination is a scary thing.

Brainwash and control kids from birth, then tell them their entire family and community will shun them if they don't comply and hey presto - 99% of them do!

Sadly, most will then go on to do the same to their own kids.