Sad our church turned its back on dd

[TeenLifeMum]

Dd has been to church all her life. At one point we moved to a different church that suited us more but we made lovely friends etc and dd was attending youth group until she was 15. Suddenly she was less keen but focusing on GCSEs so we didn’t push it. With clubs etc for the other dc, regular attendance dropped a bit but we were fairly relaxed.

I believe in god but have always had issues with “the church”, but put that aside to be with people of faith.

I recently learned why dd stopped going to youth - they did a full session on how they should pray for gay people in the hope of healing them. How they are so angry about people loving each other is beyond me.

dd is gay. Her girlfriend is loving, kind, polite, and caring. I want all my dc to have loving healthy relationships so have no issue and naively thought others wouldn’t care. Turns out they do. Two of her closest friends stepped away due to her being gay (parents we’d met through church) and now she understandably doesn’t want to go to church, and neither do I.

I’m angry. I hope they’re really proud of themselves from their high horses. On the off chance they’re on here - no, you’re not good Christians.

Thanks for humouring my rant.

Religion = exclusivity. In one way or another.

It isn't exhausting though, because when you accept Jesus Christ as your saviour you receive the Holy Spirit, and He helps you so much and brings joy and peace, beyond what you can understand. You don't have to struggle with anything on your own ever again.

I’ve edited my post to delete what I wrote as actually I don’t want to burst the bubble of delusion for people who their faith brings strength to, as part of me misses feeling like that.
but please don’t extend that into putting judgement or restrictions on others lives as I promise if you looked into it properly you would see how flawed it all is.

Right, so if you're talking about free will, are you meaning that people are not murderers, thieves and liars etc form birth, but choose to become them later in life? Surely that is very different from a person who is born gay, and can't choose not to be? Unless you're saying that being gay is a choice?

Also, all of your examples are sins which hurt other people so it makes sense for them to be sins. Who is being hurt by 2 people being gay and having a relationship with each other?

I didn’t want to over complicate the post. Dh and I were in a service where the vicar did this and that’s when we stopped going. We attended a different church at Christmas and told the dc it was due to a more convenient time. It’s the youth group bit I wasn’t aware of so my post spoke about that part. It might have been 3 years ago rather than two - I’ve lost track of time since covid.

up until that point it felt quite open and welcoming.

But being gay is not a negative behaviour, it’s one of love, yet you compare them to thieves? Have a word with yourself.

I would say the same thing if I was raking in a lot of money.

Yes many religions are very homophobic.

Why should gay people be "tolerated"? Ffs.

It will now do blessing services for gay couples who have had civil marriages.

so your daughter left 2 years ago

i’m confused by the timeline because it would seem you knew that this viva was homophobic and left. Makes sense that any youth group attached to a homophobic vicar would also spout his views

Before I refer to your final sentence I want to say that there is nothing sinful about being gay. Being gay is just another normal state of being; it's as normal to be gay as it is to be straight.

To answer your question, it is of course possible for people to be hurt by two gay people having a relationship if one or both of them has been pretending to be straight and has deceived wife/husband/partner/family. And many have done this because of the attitudes displayed by the church the OP talks about.

I agree @pointythings . My own thoughts about what is sexually immoral, being a Christian, is guided by God's teaching as it is revealed in the Bible. Looking through that lens, it's 'only valid' for those who love the Lord ... but of course anyone and everyone can have their own opinion and thoughts around what the Bible says. I guess here I should also say the same for any book that folk consider 'holy'.

Anyone's sexuality is not 'sinful' in itself, it's how we may choose to express our sexuality that may be not within the Lord's 'blue print'. Live and let live, be free to be ourselves, be free to ignore and dismiss any 'do nots' from a Book you (not a personal 'you') don't believe.

Fortunately we were not made to be little robots with no free will to make our own choices on how we live our lives. Too many folk are too busy judging others through a prejudiced lens: any Christian knows that is the Lord alone's job. It makes me have a wry smile at folk who get their knickers in a knot in the mistaken belief Christians are pointing a metaphorical 'en masse' finger and screaming 'sinner!', so they scream back 'homophobe!'.

Thing is, @Thegreatestoftheseislove, many many Christians, while also believing they are guided by God and the Bible, disagree with you and think that loving marriages, and child-rearing, are in God's plan for any two adults, not just those of the opposite sex.
You can't say they aren't Christians, any more than I can say you aren't a Christian.
@DuBoo that's still discrimination, isn't it? Trans fine to marry, gay not fine.

I get what you are saying @drspouse. For me, the only folk I would ever say are not 'christian' are those who a sheep in wolves' clothing and who are false teachers. Anyone else, it's not my place to judge their faith. I know many homosexuals, male and female and other who profess Jesus Christ is Lord, including Christian ministers who have entered into same sex marriage / civil partnership. Every single Christian is acutely aware of their own shortcomings in the sight of God.

What do you mean - you need money to be joyful and at peace?

A Christian is someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their saviour and repented of their sins. After that, we are being perfected by the Holy Spirit (provided we let him do so!). So it's very likely to start with that Christians will still have false beliefs and lack understanding. This is corrected over time by time spent reading the Word and guidance by the Holy spirit. So yes we are all Christians but all on different parts of our walk in faith with the Lord.

A lot of Christians believe in New Age stuff (I did) but it's wrong, and sometimes it takes time to realise that you've been on the wrong path.

What percentage of your wage do you give to the church?

I don't have a wage!

I am curious as to where I should be 'looking into it properly' in order to see how 'flawed' my belief is?

That's nothing to feel bad about I am sorry I asked.

It is deeply disappointing and so out of step with modern society. Sometimes it is written on church websites that a church supports or promotes a 'Biblical' view of marriage as being between a man and a woman. But this can sometimes then be carried further in person and morph into speaking against homosexuality.

Anyone whose child gets involved in church youth activities should be aware that the CofE has had significant safeguarding failures in recent years, including Mike Pilivachi who led huge youth festivals (Soul Survivor), was given an MBE and was recently found to have perpetrated spiritual abuse and inappropriate physical and sexual behaviour with young men (mostly 18-25 year olds), despite concerns being raised a long time ago.
Watford church leader Mike Pilavachi 'massaged young male interns' - BBC News

So it sounds like you’ve now found both the churches you’ve tried to be intolerant and sexist underneath their welcoming facade.

Doesn’t that make you question religion generally? You speak as if the religion is fine, it’s these churches that are the problem- but if these attitudes prevail at many churches, as your experience and this thread shows, doesn’t it rather suggest that the attitudes may come from the religion? I can’t see how you can separate them.

The serpent who gave it to her was a bloke.