Would you agree that my father is mean?

[Armyofprawns]

You would think that I would perhaps be able to work this out myself but family life is complicated especially the deeper you ar in with situations and I honestly don't know if my father is being mean/mean spirited or not. My friend thinks he is.

Before I start, I will say this is not about me wanting any money off my parents (I know this is heavily frowned upon on MN!). Since leaving home 26 years ago I have never asked for a penny from my parents nor have I been given any.

Up until 6 or so years ago my parents were living a pretty good life. They have never had any money worries and imo have lived a comfortable and fairly stress free, easy life. My parents are now in their early 80's and my dad has enjoyed good health and apart from needing a pacemaker and suffering from osteoporosis, so too had my mum. Dad would spend his week on the golf course or touring around in his classic motorbike, mum did some charity work in a local shop and at the weekends they were always out with friends. I live around the corner and would visit them a couple of times a week, often going out with my mum and my dc when they were young (my dc are their only gc).

However, in 2018 everything changed. My mum was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. She then developed glaucoma and cataracts and this year she has received a breast cancer diagnosis.

Since the dementia diagnosis and seeing dad struggling with mum's health needs (he is not a natural born carer) I started to help out more and more and before you know it I am going round 4-5 times a week, helping with all of their life admin, financial stuff, organising all of mum's medications and many hospital appointments (which I always attend with them) and health administration, helping with changing beds, doing their washing, taking mum to her day centre twice a week and making mum a packed lunch for both of those days too (all from my own pocket).

I don't earn a lot as I only work part time due to health issues. Money is often tight and my dad is fully aware of this.

I do all of these things to help because I know my dad struggles with mum's diagnosis and he feels the disease has also taken his life away, I know he is suffering also and it breaks me to see my parents like this. I do these things to repay my mum back for being such a lovely mum.

But I suppose the bugbear is that my parents have a lot of money (well in my opinion anyhow). Hundreds of thousands invested (from inheritance from my grandparents), £50k sits in a current account, £15k in another and they live in a very large house worth over £600k (which is now too big for them and beoming a noose around my father's neck as it is 100 years old). Dad is very hesitant to spend any of their money as I know he is worried there won't be enough to over mum's care home needs when she has to go into care, I understand his worries. They currently have a carer in for an hour Mon-Fri to help mum shower (it took me two years to persuade dad to agree to this). A hairdresser comes once a week to wash mum's hair and she attends the two afternoon sessions at the day centre per week and that's enough, dad will not pay out for anything else. My sister does their cleaning once a week/fortnight or whenever she can do it.

For our 'wages' as my dad calls it ,he gives my sister and I £40 per month each. When I told my friend this she was taken aback, she thinks this is very mean. The money helps me alot but I suppose with the amount of phone calls I make for them, the driving my mum to her day centre and paying for her packed lunch it probably covers that and leaves me with not much more!

He isn't very generous, I must admit but is this mean?

How much is your carer? MiLs was £15 an hour and she stayed for an hour bathing, washing her hair and making tea.
Her attendance allowance should be more than enough to pay for two days club and a carer. You may need to upgrade to higher rate.

I found this an invaluable source of help when MiL was alive

https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/

Have you posted about this before? If so you know he's a tight arse (and neglectful of your mum’s needs) but if you don’t stop he won’t change.

It depends on a lot of things if it's mean or not, I wouldn't expect nor take any payment from my parents personally. The reason being they have been amazing my whole life, so I would view this as being a way to pay back.

But perhaps you don't feel the same way about your own parents and feel ypu should be paid. Or perhaps you are unable to work more bcause you are doing this. Perhaps you dont want to care for yout parents.

As a job it would be very low paid, so maybe ask for more money, how much would you want per week, 100? 150?

They need to sell and downsize, he will be less worried about money then.

Yes your father is being rather too careful & using your goodwill to your cost & detriment.

Stop making the packed lunches from your own pocket. They need to come from your parents fridge.
Work out your extra mileage on your car & petrol cost. That obviously doesn't include extra wear & tear.

I think you should have a discussion with your sister & then talk to your father together. Show him in black & white what you are paying. If he is not willing to cover all the costs that you currently pay then think about stepping back with some of the help & just visit.

I would ask directly for petrol money at whatever you spend extra a month. I did this when I was in a very similar situation.

I wouldn't expect to be paid for anything else.

Oh the packed lunches I would expect them to pay for. But not my time.

As they can afford it, I do not think you should be out of pocket for the care you provide.

Yes he’s really mean. Your mums care has increased and so have the number of appointments - I would look to see if they could book patient transport or taxis for some hospital trips. He is relying on you running a car and saving that way.
You can choose to limit the number of days you’ll help and tot up the mileage; also buy food for them out of their shopping budget.
Play him at his own game. Tell your dad you can’t afford to subsidise him and that your own health issues mean you need to step back from the constant care. Involve your sister - I’m sure she’d prefer to visit than clean for them - he should be encouraged to get a cleaner in now.

How will he decide it’s time for a care home? Will it have to be a crisis as I can’t see him stumping up £6000 a month willingly.

He should pay you the national minimum wage for how much you do plus more imo.
As you say, you have your own concerns (I can relate) that doesn't allow you to work more in your normal job.
I don't know how much he should give you, but it's a huge amount more than he is already because people pay for the service that you are giving and it's tiring, emotionally and physically.

The trouble is he is paying something, so in his mind anything you do is paid for. He should either pay more to actually cover your costs and a bit of a thank you. Or nothing so it's obvious you are doing it out of love for your parents. Very difficult to broach it.

I wouldn't expect payment as such and I understand his fears re care home costs, although I think my dad would be making a point of (over) reimbursing expenses. If he's going to offer payment, £40pm is mean.

I'm really surprised that people expect to be actually paid minimum wage to help look after their ailing parents. Surely it's part of life? I didn't get paid to bring up three children and I wouldn't expect to be paid to look after my ill MiL (which I do).

You can ask directly for petrol money and for food money. Set some boundaries so that sometimes you are not available and they have to use hospital transport or taxis, this will help you not to feel over burdened. Unless you like being a martyr?

Before I start, I will say this is not about me wanting any money off my parents

It 100% is though OP! Be honest with yourself - it will help you to work out what to do.

I'd hate to think of my kids looking after me at all when I'm older but if they did I wouldn't want them to be out of pocket while doing so.

If your Dad sees the money as some sort of salary then I think it's mean, but I don't think children should generally expect to be paid for looking after a parent. I was in a similar situation with my mum and it never occurred to her or to me to pay me a monthly allowance for the caring I did. Before her dementia really took hold and she only needed physical support, she used to try to pay for any significant out of pocket expenses and things that I bought her, which I occasionally accepted but never expected - as you said, I did everything for my mum out of love and because she had always been a wonderful mother to me and my brother.

I think being reluctant to pay for carers, cleaners etc is a bit of a generational thing. It took a very long time to persuade my mum to agree to have a gardener to just cut her grass, and it really did have a detrimental impact on her - although she knew it was very very difficult for her to keep the grass under control, she saw it as a real reflection of the decline in her health and loss of independence. I could never get her to agree to have a cleaner, partly because of the cost but also again because of the loss of independence, and because she was in denial about the worsening condition of her house, so I ended up doing as much as I could when she was in a different room etc.

Perhaps your dad is reluctant to spend money because he is concerned about care home fees, and with fees of £1500 a week, it will last for such a short time before he has to start using his investments. I know from experience with my mum and mother in law that it is incredibly hard to get continuing healthcare funding, especially for dementia, so that won't be something your father could rely on. People often start suggesting that parents should downsize as they get older, but I really don't think it's right to try to persuade your dad to do this just because he's finding it more difficult to maintain the house. Now that my husband and I are in our mid 60s/early 70s, a couple of friends have asked if we're thinking of downsizing, and that really makes me angry. This is our home that has 35 years of memories, and that we've invested the majority of our adult lives in - I will have to be dragged out of my home kicking and screaming and we would have no intention of moving to a smaller house just because we're getting older.

Will you expect hours of your children’s time each week when you’re old, for free, because that’s part of life?

Exactly. Op doesn't want to make money out of her parents. But it's only fair she gets full reimbursement of costs. They can afford it.

The carer is £18 per hour and comes 5 hours per week and the two afternoons at the day centre are £56 per session (3 hours). I think mum gets the higher rate so that just about covers those things.

I'll have a look at the forum, thank you.

If they want to do it, yes of course.

OP can stop doing any of it if she wants to.

It is fair for your dad to be worried about the cost if care (it’s not just your my either. He could well need care too).

But from what you said, he can afford to give you more (incl for example money for petrol, lunch etc…).

Im wondering if youve ever calculated how much it costs you re travel etc…?
And how much you can afford to spend to help your parents (assuming that if you can only work last time, 1- you’ll have a lower wage and 2- the effort caring from your parent might impact your ability to work longer hours too)?

It might be a discussion worth having both with your dh and with your dad

It's a difficult one.
It sounds like your Dad is meeting your Mum's care needs (with the help of yourself and your sister). Don't forget he is elderly and so probably worried about the future.
When my Mum started to need care we spent a fortune between travelling to her (I lived 3 hours away and so would stay 3 days) and buying her food etc. When we bought the weekly shopping she would offer to reimburse us but she didn't think to pay for the little bits we bought her outside the weekly shop or the diesel. Nor did we think to ask her to.
Your Dad probably thinks you are looking after your Mum because you love her and want the best for her ( which you obviously do). It probably wouldn't occur to him that you would want to be paid and he probably thinks he is being really good to you by giving you £40 a month.
If you are struggling to pay for your Mum's lunches then there is no harm in asking your Dad to provide the packed lunch. Just tell him that you can't afford all the extra expense.
I don't think he is knowingly being mean or taking advantage of you. I think he sees it as family looking after family.

I am honestly shocked at your friend's attitude. Why do they speak about your family like that and upset you?

Except you know very well it’s much more complicated than that.

Because it’s about her parents, not some randoms she works/volunteers for

I don't want or expect money from my parents and as I've said in my op, I have never asked for money from them but was taken back just how annoyed my friend was when we had this conversation, so it had me wondering.

I have the opposite opinion about large houses a d older age. Dh and I are in are 50's and will most definitely be downsizing as soon as we can. My home is the only home my DC have known, it was my grandparents home before it was ours and all of our beloved pets are buried in the garden. This house holds a huge amount of sentiment to us but those memories are in our hearts not in bricks and mortar. I certainly don't want to be tied down by a house too large or too old to maintain. My dad has huge regrets about not moving to a smaller and more manageable house.

Thank you. It is so so hard to just switch off and back away. I have tried so many times and the guilt is huge because my dad doesn't cope well emotionally with this sort of thing.